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If one more person...

11K views 102 replies 41 participants last post by  TxElectrician 
#1 ·
Tells me I'm too expensive, and then asks if I could possibly give them the number of my roofing/drywall/tile/paint/granite/etc guy or supplier so they can just hire them directly, I'm going to hit them right in the larynx with a 2x12. Hard.
 
#7 ·
Or go ahead and leave their contact. Who cares? Ha ha I f n care!

If it is really a ongoing problem explain it in such a way they feel stupid to even have asked. Something like this: They are "My sub-contractors", see I am a "Contractor", they are my "Sub-contractors" and you hire a "Contractor" like me, who "Contracts" to "Sub Contractors". As your "Contractor" overseeing "My hand picked Sub-Contractors" has taken years of weeding out the bad ones so forgive me for considering them "My Sub-Contrcators" and you asking for all my work efforts to be given away for less than free, in fact taking food off my table by doing so...
 
#8 ·
It is easier to swing a 2x4!!! Doing a T&M with mark up on materials. Told the owner to buy thier own fixtures and lights and not to worry about any markup on them. A week before I was going to start the homeowner asked me for my material list so he could purchase it and have it delivered. I told him he needed to do his own take off and be responsible for the quality. Two days later got the goahead to supply the material. I relaxed and put my 2x4 down
 
#9 ·
You need to sharpen your pencil
 
#12 ·
Have a list of the worst hack subs you know. Then give them that list when they ask. Tell them you can not guarantee the work if you are not there to run the job as the subs are only part of the process. Then wait for the call to come back and fix the balls up from the hack subs at a massive mark up :laughing:
 
#15 ·
Are they saying your too expensive based on a direct comparison of your bid to other bids? Or do they just have no clue what things really cost?

For those who have little exposure/experience in receiving estimates, I think they genuinely just have no idea what to expect. Many times I am the only person to bid a project but the HO will say, "I had no idea it would be that expensive". To which I typically respond, Compared to what? How much do you think it should be?

Just wondering if anyone else agrees that it might be a matter of educating the customer when it is not a comparison to other bids.
 
#19 ·
I agree with this statement. I believe that there are some that just want to shop around and find the lowest price but many are just clueless as to the costs of a particular construction project. For instance, a very nice lady (a referral) called me and wanted a second story addition on her home. I met with her twice as we were going over design ideas. I was explaining the basics of the construction process to her and she froze when I mentioned the disturbance that would happen to her whole home. She thought that there would be zero disturbance to the lower level of the home. Then and there I realized that she didn't know what she was getting into. I tried my best to explain it to her and I haven't heard from her since.
 
#18 ·
People that state "you are too expensive" could just be trying to see if they can haggle a bit and not mean much else. But if they sort of push it and you feel they are trying to obama you, then just walk as they'll never be completely happy and will always try to take more and more money from you. I wouldn't even give them a list of hacks/cons as you don't want to be associated with that stuff. Let them find people off craigslist.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I think what your running into is the phsychological state of Americans about the economy and the future outlook.

When was the last time we heard good economic news- something - anything! ? I (personally) believe that with out a growth in jobs- real jobs where not going to move the economic ladder up and will remain stagnant- in limbo.

I think Leo's comment is more so what a lot of us have had to do....and it's painfull....most Americans are holding back, not spending as much.

You want to know why customers are doing what ever they can to keep their expenditures down.....I read an interesting article and maybe this will help you understand what's going on out there......


----------------------------------

Why Consumers Aren't Spending

Politicians are putting a lot of stock in plans and legislation designed to resuscitate the economy, proposing everything from tax credits for businesses that hire to expanding and expediting trade agreements with other nations.

But will passing another stimulus bill restore consumer confidence, the absence of which has severely hampered economic growth and progress toward recovery?

Experts aren't so sure. Despite the fact that the economy is growing—albeit, extremely slowly—and the economy hasn't begun to shed jobs yet, consumer sentiment remains in the dumps. Americans feel slightly more secure in the workplace, but on the whole they feel "worse off" financially than last year, according to a recent survey by Absolute Strategy Research (ASR). Consumers are also more pessimistic about the coming year, largely due to worries about the rising cost of living.


"The issue is 'Why aren't people spending?' and 'Why aren't they confident of their ability to spend more?'" says Robert Shapiro, fellow at the Georgetown Center for Business and Public Policy at the McDonough School of Business and chairman of Sonecon, LLC. "We've had a modest recovery, including in employment."

But that hasn't been enough. According to experts, the ASR survey underscores the deep scars of the Great Recession, in particular how the credit crunch and housing meltdown have fundamentally changed Americans' opinions about debt and housing as a foolproof investment.

"People still feel very insecure, they're worried, and it's changing their attitude about debt," says David Bowers, global strategist and managing director of Absolute Strategy Research. "Although jobs initiatives are to be welcomed, this is a reminder of just how severe a headwind housing has become."


Household worth fell about $16 trillion from peak to trough, but only about half of that loss has been made up, which helps explain why Americans feel less wealthy and more insecure. Moreover, a third of all homeowners in the ASR survey believe their home is worth less than they paid for it, and 27 percent believe they have an underwater mortgage.

Why do housing values really matter? According to the Fed, the bottom 80 percent of American households hold only 7 percent of the total value of all financial assets in the economy. But that same 80 percent holds about 40 percent of all residential real estate assets, which means more Americans rely on and perceive their wealth from the value of their home.

"Home equity is the only widely held asset in America, and home equity is very sensitive to shifts in housing values," Shapiro says. "You have a very powerful negative wealth effect going on."


In previous recoveries, a run-up in housing values made Americans feel wealthier and more apt to spend, even though wages had stagnated. This time around, the reverse has happened. Wages have stayed flat, but housing values have plummeted.

When housing takes a hit, so does Americans' perception of wealth. If they feel less wealthy, they're likely to spend less, which feeds into a vicious cycle of less spending, less economic growth, and less confidence.

"It's a feedback loop where weakness of growth, unemployment, household wealth not doing well, and the political uncertainty surrounding future regulatory policy all make for low consumer confidence," says Greg Daco, principal economist at IHS Global Insight. "Consumer confidence feeds into lower consumer spending, which leads to lower sales for businesses, which then have less means to reduce costs in other ways, so they might end up reducing payrolls."


But while Americans remain pessimistic about the prospects for dramatic improvement, most don't feel the economy is destined to take a nosedive either, perhaps one slightly comforting nugget in all the dismal data. A recent survey of financial professionals revealed that based on interactions with clients, more than 54 percent believe the economy will remain lodged in its current state of limbo.

"We're mired in a lot of uncertainty across the board and the results speak loudly to the fact that people feel like [the economy] is going to be the same, we're spinning our wheels," says Tim McPeak, senior analyst at Sageworks, Inc., which provides financial analysis on privately held companies. "Uncertainty breeds paralysis and until people have a clearer picture of where we are going, they're going to be less likely to make big decisions whether that's hiring, making capital investments in business, or making larger purchases."

So how do we break the cycle? One of the major criticisms leveled at President Obama's much-anticipated American Jobs Act is that it overlooks the housing crisis. While Obama floated the idea of working more closely with the Federal Housing Financing Agency (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's regulator) to facilitate more mortgage refinancing for struggling homeowners, some experts say the measures don't directly address the foreclosure and housing slump, which is often blamed for the drawn-out downturn in real estate.


A push for better access to refinancing options could give the housing market and the economy a small boost by potentially stemming the flow of new foreclosures, but with more than 3.5 million first-mortgage loans in or near foreclosure and more price declines likely, the outlook is grim.

"Most worrisome is the risk that housing will resume the vicious cycle seen at the depths of the last recession, when falling prices pushed more homeowners under water causing more defaults, more distress sales, and even lower prices," Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, wrote in a recent report. "That cycle was broken only by unprecedented monetary and fiscal policy support."

While the Fed has promised to keep interest rates low for the next few years, more intervention from the central bank is uncertain. That leaves fiscal policy to pick up the slack, the specifics of which Congress and the President haven't been able to agree on. What is certain, experts say, is that further partisan bickering and backbiting will do nothing to improve consumer confidence, and may actually further undermine it.



That's a frightening possibility, especially in light of Americans' reduced spending and increased savings rates. Americans are pulling back and becoming increasingly risk-averse, according to ASR's survey—50 percent of respondents said they would not take any risks with their savings, compared with 40 percent two years ago.

"People have been up against this headwind for two years and it's starting to darken the whole mood," Bowers says. "America is known for being a great entrepreneurial society, the land of opportunity. This is about people going back into their cabin, shutting the door, and hunkering down. This is about survival mode."

----------------------------------------------


So,
As soon as we start producing..(creating jobs )...Americans will start to feel better about our economy......

GDP , IMO - is where it starts....

But bad economic news (repeatedly) will take its toll on confidence.....and it has.:rolleyes:



B,
 
#22 ·
When was the last time we heard good economic news- something - anything! ? I (personally) believe that with out a growth in jobs- real jobs where not going to move the economic ladder up and will remain stagnant- in limbo.

B,
They announced that 88,000 people gained employment this month, that the unemployment figure went down to 7.6%, that's good news, right?

To bad they neglected to mention that in the same period 660,000 people either lost or went off the unemployment roles. Which is the real reason why the unemployment figure went down. They are no longer counted in the system because they are no longer on the books collecting.:eek:
 
#26 ·
Its not a strain on the brain Tom......

I have had to deal with the same mentality......more so than ussual and I don't like it, but I am not the only one.....talk to your peers....it's happening all over the US?....

It is what it is...and it's painfull......:rolleyes:


I remember when it was the other way around, gave them a fair price ...locked the work on ....and so on.......

People were not so "penny pinching" and more concerned with getting the work done by someone they trust, like .........not that they were willing to write a check , no matter what the cost, but not so cought up in the fear of the economic stability of the country and themselves...


I've asked my clients how they feel about the economy......and they are worried, some are extremely worried about thier job, thier savings, and the drop in the valu of the home thier trying to renovate....

I'm not trying to be negative, I hope you realize that,....i don't believe in sticking my head in the sand (like the current administration) and saying everything is moving along nicely......

Data is data....and that can be manipulated depending on who is giving it.
But hard economists don't play with the numbers.....neither does what is really happening out on the streets...(business)


B,
 
#30 ·
Actually, it's not a real problem, as much as an annoyance. Just happened to me like three times this week, and I felt the need to vent...

Example: lady calls yesterday asking if I know someone who can texture the walls and lay tile in her laundry. When I respond that, yes, I can do those things, she says "well I kind of hoped you could just get me in touch with the guys you use, cause I know that would be cheaper".

It actually worked out ok because I convinced her that the Hispanic guys I use for texture no habla ingles too bueno, and if she was going to use them, then she would be better off just paying me and letting me take care of it, because I've used them for years and they know me. (Which is true, btw)

Then I gave her the number of my tile guy.

Tile guy throws an extra hundred on the job for me.

Problem solved.
 
#31 ·
This forum PREACHES how to sell around price. It's only one part of the sale.

Value = quality of service + materials + price

Sell the first two and the third won't be an issue. If it is, then research your low baller competition so you can have a counter argument ready when confronted about it (and give specific examples).

Or hell, do like others and do a pre-emptive strike and have a brochure handy pointing out "Questions to ask your contractor".

I was one of those in the dark customers who focused on price. I didn't know better. But anytime I asked for explanations all I got was vague answers.
 
#32 ·
The economy does suck. That's the reality of the time. Material costs are an all time high and next week, they'll be even higher but yet labor rates are stagnant and instead of going up with material increases, they go down.

I just quoted a cedar job that was larger in size than one I did for my old boss 8 years ago but yet my quote was cheaper and I still lost the job by THOUSANDS of dollars. Did I mention his material costs were much cheaper too?

There are always people who only look for a low price and when you're running a business that requires you to keep a lot of people busy, it's hard not to fall into the trap of lowering your price to get a job.
 
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