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Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?

 
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:18 PM   #21
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


What's the final payment owed to you?


Knock off 2%.
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:22 PM   #22
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
You sir, are farked.

Self-farked.

Multitudinously self-farked.
I for a moment thought you might have made that word up, but then thought, "No, STG wouldn't make up a word." so I had to look it up.
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:25 PM   #23
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


So if my client says, "due to the duration of this project, i cannot pay you the remainder of the balance of this contract", what would you guys say?
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:30 PM   #24
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimNJ View Post
What's the final payment owed to you?


Knock off 2%.
about $20k
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:41 PM   #25
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by billythekid13 View Post
So if my client says, "due to the duration of this project, i cannot pay you the remainder of the balance of this contract", what would you guys say?
Who cares what he says? It's the CONTRACT that matters.

One party to a contract does not magically get to change things. By allowing it, you really don't have a contract.... you have expensive toilet paper.
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:56 PM   #26
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by billythekid13 View Post
about $20k

$20k owed for final payment on a $100k job!
You need to seriously rethink your payment draws.

Tell them 10% off the final payment=$2000 (2%).
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:02 PM   #27
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by billythekid13 View Post
It states exactly:

"PROJECTED COMPLETION DATE: 60 days from commencement
Completion date subject ti change based on City delays"

The city held us up a little bit, but it has been 6 months since commencement. Ultimately it is probably 70% my fault for the delay. I am not offended at all. This is actually a long time client of mine. But the relationship will probably be ended after this job.
If that's what it reads... It says PROJECTED and subject to change based on city delays... doesn't specify how long that is nor what happens when it does... things like that can cascade from one job to the next... what does "commencement" mean and is it defined in the contract? Is it from the date he signed the contract or the date you commenced work onsite?

If you're telling us that he owes you $20K and doesn't want to pay, that's 20% of your contract... you're telling us it's 70% your fault which would lead us to believe there's more than one written communication/text detailing the delays and your responsibility for it...

But at 70% of it being your fault, and a long term client, you should consider throwing the guy a bone but you don't HAVE to lose money and his "personal pay" is irrelevant... if he's an established client, own up to your part and tell what you CAN do for him (whatever that amount is) and be sure he knows contractually that you don't HAVE to give it to him as part of your contract and he can't just change that contract and that's what lien laws are for... you're doing it in recognition of him being a long-term client in a business where he knows things like this can happen... if he's a long term client and you came in under completion date in the past, you can use that to your advantage...

We're not getting the full picture on what the 70% your fault represents without dragging it from you, so... the more information, the better...

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Old 03-26-2019, 09:10 PM   #28
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


What are his holding costs on the property? Would he have been able to sell it sooner if not for your delays?
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:10 PM   #29
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post

We're not getting the full picture on what the 70% your fault represents without dragging it from you, so... the more information, the better...



Exactly.
Time to hit the sack. I'll be interested in what is added overnight.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:46 PM   #30
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


If I drug it out like that, I'd probably eat the last payment.

I assume you new customers are more lucrative than a long term customer....
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:59 PM   #31
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


It's bad form for a supposed professional to behave in that fashion.

You shouldn't have left the job to go do other ones, when you promised him a completion date.

If he, or the City, held you up, you can legitimately pull off, and go work somewhere else, but you should have come back finished it, or explained that the delays were going to push back the Projected Completion Date.

You should behave more professionally, and have a better, more professional Contract to go along with it.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:59 PM   #32
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Nothing came up about this when it was clearly not done at expected completion time?

Long story short - lesson learned. Either don't put completion dates in the contract or be prepared to finish them on time.
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:00 PM   #33
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Thanks for all the info. In terms of timing, I bit off more than i could chew with a few other projects so i had my crew on other jobs. Rain held me back for a few weeks on the roof but it didnt hold me up for the amount of time that has actually allotted. I assume my clients holding costs are 10%. The house was bought for 650k.
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:13 PM   #34
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden view View Post
Nothing came up about this when it was clearly not done at expected completion time?

Long story short - lesson learned. Either don't put completion dates in the contract or be prepared to finish them on time.
In Cali, we must have a Projected Completion Date.

But my Contract is rife with "Contractor is not responsible for delays beyond Contractors control, including but not limited to...."

And then the list goes on.

And on.

And if something comes up, I always try to get out ahead of it instead of the client having to tell me.
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:18 PM   #35
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


If he planned on flipping 2 houses every year with 10% profit, you just cost him ~$32K, and he's sitting on market risk the whole time.

You got in over your head on other projects, that's your problem, not this customer's.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:42 AM   #36
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
I don't think a single text message carries much weight relative to a signed contract. However, it's generally not a very good business practice to lower a current project's priority to go work elsewhere--particularly if you're already behind schedule.

Legally, you can probably hold him to the letter of the contract. Ethically, it might make sense to throw him a bone.
Couldn't agree more - it's probably more of a risk to your reputation than any legal repercussions. Technically the onus is on him to seal deadlines into the contract - he should have made sure that was in there if he wasn't happy to grant an extension of time for the same price, but depending on how much money back he's asking for, might be worth biting the bullet and learning a lesson from this one...
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:29 AM   #37
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


If he thinks he can just 'amend' the contract on a whim, he'd have to agree YOU can too.

Ergo, the final price just went up $10k.
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:04 PM   #38
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
If he thinks he can just 'amend' the contract on a whim, he'd have to agree YOU can too.

Ergo, the final price just went up $10k.


Assuming of course that op actually has a contract that is "legal" in whatever state he is in.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:43 AM   #39
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
If he thinks he can just 'amend' the contract on a whim, he'd have to agree YOU can too.

Ergo, the final price just went up $10k.
A fair point haha, although I'd be wary of taking such a confrontational route with it - always better to try and build bridges rather than burn them!
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:24 AM   #40
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Re: Homeowner Wants To Deduct Pay... Possible?


There is no excuse for a project running over on schedule as much as this one has unless the client drastically changed the scope of work. I could see weather delays adding a couple weeks, but your schedule over run is ridiculous. I hope you didn't tell them "you had other projects that you were working on" that caused some of the delay. A customer does not care about your other clients project and shouldn't ever have to hear about it.

You need to learn how to accurately schedule your work and hit deadlines. It's generally good practice to under promise and over deliver. For instance, tell them the job should take about 5 months, get it done in 4 months and you look like a hero.

I'm guessing you don't have a very good written contract either, with terms and details explaining all of the "what ifs". This is something you should have in the future and both you and the client need to have a clear understanding of the terms, so you don't run into issues like this. There are some very good canned construction contracts available which you can uses as a basis to customize your own contract.

Having said all of this, if you don't have a clearly stated completion date guarantee in the contract, then he is entitled to no discount.

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