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Old 12-11-2008, 09:52 PM   #41
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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Last Febuary I was sitting in my accounts office, there are several desks where the employees take peoples tax info for filing.I observed one man starting to get a little loud speaking in spanish to one of the girls working there, he picked up his paperwork and stormed out the door.I ask the girl [she speaks english and spanish] what happened. She said the man got mad because his SS card number would not come up in the computer.She told him the number comes up in-valid. He got upset and said that was impossible, he just bought the card for $50.00 it has to be good !
Easy huh? No reason to learn the language, and citizenship is just a $50 phony document away.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:34 PM   #42
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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I'm surprised Mickey isn't all over this yet.

There is a definite problem with your thinking Ivinni, though you will not concede that in the least bit so I hesitate to even bother since it will do no good.

I might not have as much of a problem if they assimilated. That is where the distinction is between what European settlers did and what stereotypically is referred to as Hispanic.

They don't care. They come and burden the health care system, the infrastructure, the tax system, schools, utilities, work force......every single thing in life here in the US. Our forefathers built this country on principles and values and it works if people abide by those principles and values.

Edit:Another anecdote- one of my closer friends is a Cuban from Miami. He was born here but his parents came over earlier. If you know anything about Cubans, you know they stick to their own mainly, especially family. Their culture is different and outsiders are regarded with a suspicious eye, in my experience. But when this guy heard a redneck from Alabama doing his best to speak in what he considered his native tongue, it opened a great friendship that probably never would have budded if he had heard me speak his language.

All I'm saying is htere is more to it than money, at least at this point.

Hispanics don't. Period. They do not assimilate.

If you want to learn Spanish, that is all great and wonderful. I speak a little for myself, but not the same reasons you do. You're using it to exploit the system. I use it so I can assimilate into the society when I travel to their country.

I understand your problem with their lack of assimilation. However, if you compare their attempts to the attempts of the first Europeans on this continent, you will be mistaken.

The first Europeans here not only did not assimilate to the ways of those that were here before them, they rounded them up and put on reservations. Apples to oranges comparison, I think.

Is what I chose to do exploitation? Damn right. Just like you exploit the system the way you do which allows you to be the owner of your business instead of working for one as an employee. There is no moral difference and the only legal difference (not that I have broken the law because I haven't, I checked em all and said so above) between what you and I do is what you BELIEVE is illegal.

I have respect for what you have to say and always read threads where you have posted that I would not normally be interested in. Therefore, I respect your opinion on this point. However, I do believe that change may be difficult for you based on your response (only).

Regarding my use of the language, the fact that I did learn the language has changed me in many ways. It has changed the way I think, in a good, more "big picture" kind of way. It matured me in many ways at the age of 26. It matured me in many ways that men three times that age will never experience because they refuse change in any form and therefore stagnate. This why each generation calls the one before it a bunch of relics. Because the generation before has stayed the same and not evolved, kind of like the dinasours. Learning that language has also allowed me to travel to and be comfortable in other places that I would not have been comfortable in before. Thereby allowing me to grow even more and continue to learn and meet many great people and experience greater things.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:39 PM   #43
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


[quote=Ivinni;554472]
I found a few guys and brought them in one at a time. Bring one in and let go of one of the headaches. I did this until the my crews went from black and white to brown and all the headaches listed above began to fade away. Life was good.quote]

So, your experience was that the white and black guys were headaches, and when you one by one replaced them with brown guys, the headaches went away?
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:45 PM   #44
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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I've done fine thinking like I do.
Congratulations on your success.

Are you saying you endorse and condone the concept of people coming to America from other countries and choosing not to bother to learn the primary language of this country? And it is okay for them to expect us to learn their language to make it more convenient for them?
I'm not being confrontational, just curious as to how YOU think.

Well, I told you what I think in specific terms. If you choose to try and extrapolate more from my writing than is really there, you will only be fooling yourself.

I did not learn their language to make it easier for them, I did it to make it easier for me! I thought I made that clear as it was the point of my original post.

If you research a little, you find that there are many (up to 2) generations of immigrant families in the larger cities in this country that STILL don't speak English, or at least some of them in the family such as homemakers who had no reason to learn.

I hope this did not come across as confrontational either.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:47 PM   #45
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


[quote=Bodger;554937]
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Originally Posted by Ivinni View Post
I found a few guys and brought them in one at a time. Bring one in and let go of one of the headaches. I did this until the my crews went from black and white to brown and all the headaches listed above began to fade away. Life was good.quote]

So, your experience was that the white and black guys were headaches, and when you one by one replaced them with brown guys, the headaches went away?

No, my experience was that the behavior of the blacks and the whites were my headaches. Not because they were black or white, but because they had bad attitudes as lazy Americans.

And yes, as I replaced the bad attitudes with good attitudes, the headaches went away.

Please don't try to change my words around or it will seem that your intentions are not genuine.
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:22 PM   #46
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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Originally Posted by Ivinni View Post
I understand your problem with their lack of assimilation. However, if you compare their attempts to the attempts of the first Europeans on this continent, you will be mistaken.

The first Europeans here not only did not assimilate to the ways of those that were here before them, they rounded them up and put on reservations. Apples to oranges comparison, I think.
Fair enough statement. I understand what you say, but I feel the difference is that the Europeans came and conquered, Latinos are pilfering.

Agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Ivinni View Post

No, my experience was that the behavior of the blacks and the whites were my headaches. Not because they were black or white, but because they had bad attitudes as lazy Americans.
I hope for your sake that you don't believe this 100%.
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:50 PM   #47
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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Originally Posted by framerman View Post
Fair enough statement. I understand what you say, but I feel the difference is that the Europeans came and conquered, Latinos are pilfering.

Agree to disagree.



I hope for your sake that you don't believe this 100%.
I don't really think I completed my thought with this post. I did not mean that all Americans are lazy. The true meaning of the thought was that the group that worked for me at that time were lazy and spoiled (and Americans as opposed to immigrants).

I also don't really think that we are in disagreement about the two groups. They both come/came uninvited but their methods are different no matter how you slice it, just like you said.

I personally see no difference in the morality of the two methods employed by the two groups. But I believe you do and I respect that. It is America, after all.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:18 AM   #48
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


[quote=Ivinni;554940]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodger View Post


No, my experience was that the behavior of the blacks and the whites were my headaches. Not because they were black or white, but because they had bad attitudes as lazy Americans.

And yes, as I replaced the bad attitudes with good attitudes, the headaches went away.

Please don't try to change my words around or it will seem that your intentions are not genuine.
Not my intention to change your words around, just get clarification on them, which I did, and thanks. Your experience appears to be that the good attitudes all ended up being amongst the Latinos. Got it.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:36 AM   #49
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


[quote=Bodger;554973]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivinni View Post
Not my intention to change your words around, just get clarification on them, which I did, and thanks. Your experience appears to be that the good attitudes all ended up being amongst the Latinos. Got it.
You're right. But, I also understand that it can be and is sometimes different in Cali.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:44 AM   #50
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


This has become, inevitably, a P & R post. Without any doubt.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:01 AM   #51
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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this has become, inevitably, a p & r post. Without any doubt.
Que!?
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:23 AM   #52
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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Que!?
This thread began as a rant as well as an appeal for advice concerning Language Instruction. It has become a debate, discussion and experiment in the Socio-Economics of Immigration which is, in all relativity and practicality, Political in Nature.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:33 AM   #53
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


This is a very hard topic. Well to start off my mom arrived to California illegally. Was there for about 2 years and then immigration cought her and sent her back. She then again came over and migrated to Chicago. That's were she meet my father, which he was illegal at the time. I am so proud that she went through the trouble to come here. I was born in Chicago and proud to be a American. I have went to Mexico and Guatemala several of times and as beautiful that it is, I will never live there. The crime is very bad and they have no good guidance. Anyways it took my dad and mom to become residents about 10 years. Thats how long the goverment took to take care of their case. 4 years ago I paid about $10,000 to get my brother's residence. He had a work permit for about 5 years. Almost all my guys are mexican. They all have ss card dl, and have work permits. The ones who do not I guide them to the right direction and then tell them to call me when they do. These guys want to be residence. They are not hiding or trying to get something for nothing. They are here to make their lives better. I'm not speaking for all hispanics. Theres some hispanics who do not give a damn about nothing, beside their check and spend it on nonsense, and do not try to get a working permit or better themselves.

Last edited by Staging; 12-12-2008 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:13 AM   #54
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


I'll say this. I have been to several countries in my time and seen how a lot of them live.

If I was a young buck living anywhere else, my dream would be to move to America and live the good life.

It would take the board patrol, army, navy, air force and marines to keep me out this biotch.

Could you imagine we have a country that has such an wonderful image that people die trying to get here to live the American dream.

Little kids being told by their parents that all you have to do is get to America and everything will be ok.

Not saying it is right or wrong what they do. I know its a hell of a motivation for them to try.

I know I'd be a raft riding, dingy clinging, riding in the back of a truck, walking through the desert bastard
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:23 AM   #55
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


This post is in regard to the post by "Staging".


If only all Illegals, Verified Immigrants, Naturalized Citizens, Born in the US of A persons, Whites, Blacks, Orientals, Jews, Catholics, Moslems and all else that call this Planet "Home", thought, acted and believed as you do, this thread would have NEVER been posted!!!!

But we are who we are and many of us are just plain selfish, mean and unhinged in the ethics of conduct!

Having said all this....... The biggest problem with Illegals is that they earn and send the majority of their Money to their Native Land with the intention of returning Home someday and living "Large". Nothing inherently wrong with this goal except for the fact that it stifles the American Economy in the worst of ways.

The "Take" is the Money earned but the "Give" does not exist and we all know that with take there MUST BE give or the teetor-totter crashes in one direction.
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Last edited by MALCO.New.York; 12-12-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:08 AM   #56
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
This thread began as a rant as well as an appeal for advice concerning Language Instruction. It has become a debate, discussion and experiment in the Socio-Economics of Immigration which is, in all relativity and practicality, Political in Narure.
Lo Siento Guero. No habla Anglais...

But, you are correct sir.

Last edited by Bodger; 12-12-2008 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:11 AM   #57
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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This is a very hard topic. Well to start off my mom arrived to California illegally. Was there for about 2 years and then immigration cought her and sent her back. She then again came over and migrated to Chicago. That's were she meet my father, which he was illegal at the time. I am so proud that she went through the trouble to come here. I was born in Chicago and proud to be a American. I have went to Mexico and Guatemala several of times and as beautiful that it is, I will never live there. The crime is very bad and they have no good guidance. Anyways it took my dad and mom to become residents about 10 years. Thats how long the goverment took to take care of their case. 4 years ago I paid about $10,000 to get my brother's residence. He had a work permit for about 5 years. Almost all my guys are mexican. They all have ss card dl, and have work permits. The ones who do not I guide them to the right direction and then tell them to call me when they do. These guys want to be residence. They are not hiding or trying to get something for nothing. They are here to make their lives better. I'm not speaking for all hispanics. Theres some hispanics who do not give a damn about nothing, beside their check and spend it on nonsense, and do not try to get a working permit or better themselves.
I'm 100% behind anyone from any country who comes here and tries to better themselves. As long as they at least attempt to assimilate into the American culture, diverse as it is. Learn the language, and do their best to become legal citizens or get legal work status.
It's the attitude that I see of so many illegal immigrants that they don't have to recognize or acknowledge the laws of the land that gets my ass red.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:22 AM   #58
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


Is this thread an indication that the tide is turniing and some are faceing reality?

It amazes me that there is one on here that when he speaks, it is almost like the E F Hutton ( I think that was the name) commercial. People not only listen, but bow in his presence for his guru business advice. But when you look at his past posts on this subject, he seems rather quiet. Been called on it once and never gave a straight answer, unless you read between the lines. These lines have a lot between them. I am not judgin ghim really. What I am curious about is is he wrong, a traitor to the trades. Or, is he ahead of the curve? He may very well be ahead of the curve, just not politically correct at this time.

Some people make me think of the bouncers at the old state line beer joints we used to have before we went wet. When I was 15, as long as I had an id, I was good to go. I have been told to leave, to get an id, and I could come back in. All it took was a piece of paper saying I was at least of age. Didn't matter if it said I was 40 years old. At that time, I guess was cya. I think a lot more of that goes on now than is admitted to.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:21 PM   #59
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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Is this thread an indication that the tide is turniing and some are faceing reality?

It amazes me that there is one on here that when he speaks, it is almost like the E F Hutton ( I think that was the name) commercial. People not only listen, but bow in his presence for his guru business advice. But when you look at his past posts on this subject, he seems rather quiet. Been called on it once and never gave a straight answer, unless you read between the lines. These lines have a lot between them. I am not judgin ghim really. What I am curious about is is he wrong, a traitor to the trades. Or, is he ahead of the curve? He may very well be ahead of the curve, just not politically correct at this time.

Some people make me think of the bouncers at the old state line beer joints we used to have before we went wet. When I was 15, as long as I had an id, I was good to go. I have been told to leave, to get an id, and I could come back in. All it took was a piece of paper saying I was at least of age. Didn't matter if it said I was 40 years old. At that time, I guess was cya. I think a lot more of that goes on now than is admitted to.


Hmmmmmmmmmm?
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:30 PM   #60
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Re: Habla Espanlo?


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If only all Illegals, Verified Immigrants, Naturalized Citizens, Born in the US of A persons, Whites, Blacks, Orientals, Jews, Catholics, Moslems and all else that call this Planet "Home", thought, acted and believed as you do, this thread would have NEVER been posted!!!!
I believe that the majority are what you wish for. The chasm, IMHO, is the perception of these people which is fueled by ignorance of their true intentions and not what is "said" in the media by the politicians and then again regurgitated by those less informed, or concentration on the "few bad apples" and not the whole of the group.

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