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Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?

 
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:57 PM   #81
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
My goodness...who cares? He lied, he fibbed, he pretended, whatever. He used subterfuge to get an answer, it wasn't malicious so let it be.

Remind your employer that his insurance not covering YOUR tools is just tough luck for him, has nothing to do with you...he should have better insurance. If he had 1 mil in liability coverage and caused 2 mil worth of damage he's still on the hook...he wants to be the boss and reap the benefits....he has to bare the burdens when they arise as well

Edit...Ok TNT cares. that's established...and it seems that F2F cares as well. Can we move along?
Sure, whenever you guys want to drop it.
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:58 PM   #82
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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Originally Posted by Kent Whitten View Post

Now that is a great idea!
Finally a typo that worked.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:33 PM   #83
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas
My goodness...who cares? He lied, he fibbed, he pretended, whatever. He used subterfuge to get an answer, it wasn't malicious so let it be.

Remind your employer that his insurance not covering YOUR tools is just tough luck for him, has nothing to do with you...he should have better insurance. If he had 1 mil in liability coverage and caused 2 mil worth of damage he's still on the hook...he wants to be the boss and reap the benefits....he has to bare the burdens when they arise as well

Edit...Ok TNT cares. that's established...and it seems that F2F cares as well. Can we move along?
Just too be clear I hate fricken liars!!

He was stupid to haul around 8 grand of tools in someone else's truck ! But seeing he lied once I doubt he had even 800 worth!!
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:50 PM   #84
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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Originally Posted by Kent Whitten View Post
If I was an employee, and I had spent my hard earned money buying tools so I could work, in the back of my mind I would HAVE to be thinking "There is a possibility that a theft could occur, and if it ever does, no one is coming to my rescue and helping me buy replacements".

Granted the employer SHOULD pay, granted that insurance SHOULD pay, granted that the thief SHOULD be beaten within an inch of his life...but SHOULD doesn't pay the bills. Just because you throw your tools in there doesn't mean he HAS to pay. Maybe ethically, it would be nice, but don't count on it.

What happens if you left your phone in there? Or your wallet? Or lunch? Groceries? Clothes? Boots? Are you going to look for the other person to pay? I'd say take some responsibility for your tools, your life, your actions and you may end up not being an employee anymore and being the employer and see how it feels when **** happens.
I'm going to comment only on the original post. Since the OP used some deceit the entire thread could be argued and it could go in any direction, so I will only comment on the original few posts.

IF the employee is REQUIRED to supply tools and is REQUIRED to leave the tools in the van then the liability is on the employer. An employee using his own tools is essentially loaning the business his tools. If you loaned a friend your tablesaw and there was a breakin and the saw was among the items stolen your friend would still be liable for the saw...no matter what his house ins policy does or doesn't cover. Same thing here

IF the employee CHOOSES to leave tools in the van because it is more convenient then an argument can be made, like if your loaning a friend a tool and he gives it back to you but you don't feel like taking it at that time and THEN it's stolen, he could argue that he gave it back to you but he was doing you a FAVOUR by letting him store it at his place.

Instance A, employee has no choice, instance B employee has a choice...that's where liability lies

In this case the theft seems to have happened while the employee was at work. It's REQUIRED for him to have all those tools and to drive the company van. He locked the van so he performed his due diligence, the liability lies squarely on the company. He did what he was REQUIRED to do
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Last edited by dom-mas; 04-05-2014 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:04 PM   #85
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


I call BS on 8k of tools in the van. My trailer probably doesn't have 8k worth of tools in it at a time.
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:11 PM   #86
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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Originally Posted by bryanad86 View Post
he did have coverage for HIS tools but only up to 1000 dollars, with a 1000 dollar deductible... which i have to pay to use it... also has 1000 dollars for damage to vehicle.. just had the office manager send over my employment contract and in hte first paragraph it says im a non-exempt employee... my employer seems to think im exempt for some reason :-X
Moreorless the answer I expected.

Doesn't matter whether it's 800 bucks, or 8K, a total tool loss is a big hit.

If that's all the coverage he's got - unless you can find a good lawyer AND a way to lien the job, you are schitz ups a crick - he doesn't have any collectable assets worth going after. Time for a job that pays enough for you to carry personal tool theft coverage.

At one point, I know 10K or better of my tools rolled in my partners van every day for years. We never got hit - and I never thought back in the day to even question if they were covered (knock wood).

Good Luck!
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:24 PM   #87
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


Employer buys lost tools.

Employer pays travel time from the time they employee is required to be at any place, shop, job whatever. Example, "Let's meet at the shop at 6, load up and get to job by 7". Time starts at 6.

Difference is carpooling. Should we meet and ride together time starts at the first business related stop. IE Lumberyard not bathroom, store stop for cold drinks or lunch.

Should employee decide to drive to job (within reasonable distance) time starts on site.

This is all about what is right by the employee. I wouldn't ask someone to help me cull lumber and load the truck, count inventory, load equipment without compensating them because work has started time for compensation.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:15 PM   #88
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


I'm going to defend bryan at least a little bit here. We exchanged a few PMs early on in the thread. I suggested that he needed to fess up to the forum about being the employee, and he did, knowing that he was going to get beaten up over the lie. He had tried getting feedback from the other side and felt it was worth trying to get the employer's perspective.

My guess is that he can take the heat and any consequences; in favor of some forgiveness is that he did own up to it.

Did he mess up with the lie? Yes. I'm in no position to condemn him too harshly.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:03 PM   #89
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO
I'm going to defend bryan at least a little bit here. We exchanged a few PMs early on in the thread. I suggested that he needed to fess up to the forum about being the employee, and he did, knowing that he was going to get beaten up over the lie. He had tried getting feedback from the other side and felt it was worth trying to get the employer's perspective. My guess is that he can take the heat and any consequences; in favor of some forgiveness is that he did own up to it. Did he mess up with the lie? Yes. I'm in no position to condemn him too harshly.
Of course non of us have ever lied in our life.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:26 PM   #90
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


Just didn't understand the point of the lie,the situation is not unusual the company I work for provides a van we supply all tools (10k nzd),then when we requested alarms in the vans we had to pay half the cost. But the van comes home with me and has done a fair few fishing trips so I figure it all evens out in the end.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:29 PM   #91
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


It's always something to hear how perfect everyone is on this site. They never had a job that was phucked up it has always been perfect and noones ever wronged anyone. This place is just amazing.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:34 PM   #92
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


Dom-mas brought up a very good point about CHOOSING to leave your tools in the van vs. it being mandatory to leave them there. I went back and read the original post and this is what I think happened-

The OP left his tools in the van overnight while he was at home because he didn't want to be bothered with carrying them into his house/apartment/trailer or wherever he lives... or for whatever reason he had no reason to be concerned about theft. So when the unfortunate inevitable sequence of events took place, he really wanted his employer to replace the tools.

I honestly don't believe the story about this taking place during the work day because if this happened while he was on the jobsite, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:37 PM   #93
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


You forgot he had to unload 8 grand worth of tools!!!
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:40 PM   #94
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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You forgot he had to unload 8 grand worth of tools!!!
That's a buttload of tools. It's really hard to tell what is truth and what isn't. At this point we can assume we didn't get all the info or the info we got was exaggerated because he admitted that to us already.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:45 PM   #95
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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Originally Posted by bryanad86 View Post
and i didnt "lie" about anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
I suggested that he needed to fess up to the forum about being the employee, and he did
He's got a funny way of fessing up.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:21 PM   #96
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


My final thought is to agree with the folks who have said that the deception was completely unnecessary. C.T.'s full of stand up people from both sides of virtually any aspect of contracting - employee/employer, big/small, hands-on/paper, general/sub, and so on, and you'll get the straight dope from both sides, no matter where you stand personally.

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Old 04-06-2014, 03:54 AM   #97
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


The OP lost any trustworthness when he started the post under a blanket of deception. It is completely understandable why some of the members came down hard on him. It would drive me crazy to have to deal with that kind of person on the job, or any place else for that matter. If I learned that a person was telling me 1/2 truths, we would part company posthaste. Integrity should mean something.......even these days.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:36 AM   #98
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


i dont understang, your all GC's and Subs, ya'll lie, or stretch the true, or kiss ass, thats what we do, thats part of the trade.
So get off your pedestal
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:13 AM   #99
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


Whenever I leave my tools in someone's van or job site, they get lifted. Maybe it's the luck of the draw. Don't know. But I always take my tools home or locked in a gang box. Yeah it take extra effort , at the end of the day , but I am attached in someway to them. Either my kids bought me a tool for Father's Day, or I had something for many years , or I used my hard earned money to buy them. No one is going to take my tools if I can help it.

It's tempting to leave them like everyone else, but my tools make me money. To let someone else care for them , well that shows that you value your laziness more then the extra effort to take them with you or secure them in someway.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:23 AM   #100
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Re: Employees Tools Stolen, Whos Responsible?


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i dont understang, your all GC's and Subs, ya'll lie, or stretch the true, or kiss ass, thats what we do, thats part of the trade.
So get off your pedestal
Maybe from your perspective. Don't include me in your delusion. In business, there's no room for outright lying. In life, there's no room for outright lying. Tell me I'm on my high horse or whatever, but never include me in your group.

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