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Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?

 
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #1
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Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


I am looking for feedback on the footing/framing plans for a deck going up at an Iowa Winery.

Poured concrete footings will be 12" diameter & 48" Deep with an assumed frost depth of 42" in Central Iowa.

Posts will be PT 6x6 Sourced from Lowes.

Girders will be three Top Choice #2 Prime Pressure Treated 2x12s sourced from Lowes that are lagged into notched 6x6s. The joists will also be these same 2x12s.

The decking to be used will be AC2 Pressure Treated Pine Decking sourced from Menards. Deck screws will be used as fasteners.

The upper deck joists will be fastened to the girders using joist hangers. The lower deck joists will set on top of the girders.

The plans are depicted below. Thoughts?


Last edited by dutchswan; 05-23-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:07 AM   #2
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan View Post
I am looking for feedback on the footing/framing plans for a deck going up at our Iowa Winery.

Poured concrete footings will be 12" diameter & 48" Deep with an assumed frost depth of 42" in Central Iowa.

Posts will be PT 6x6 Sourced from Lowes.

Girders will be three Top Choice #2 Prime Pressure Treated 2x12s sourced from Lowes that are lagged into notched 6x6s. The joists will also be these same 2x12s.

The decking to be used will be AC2 Pressure Treated Pine Decking sourced from Menards. Deck screws will be used as fasteners.

The upper deck joists will be fastened to the girders using joist hangers. The lower deck joists will set on top of the girders.

The plans are depicted below. Thoughts?

My thoughts? Ditch the wood framing and go to a steel frame, it'll last longer and be a much better frame. Ditch the wood decking as well and do a cap layer composite board like Fiberon Horizon or DuraLife.

You didn't mention railing... Go with a custom welded railing with some accents that tie in with the wine theme. Put in a welded spiral staircase while you're at it.

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:16 AM   #3
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


They will be all liquored up on wine, they will think anything looks good.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #4
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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Originally Posted by RobertCDF View Post
My thoughts? Ditch the wood framing and go to a steel frame, it'll last longer and be a much better frame. Ditch the wood decking as well and do a cap layer composite board like Fiberon Horizon or DuraLife.

You didn't mention railing... Go with a custom welded railing with some accents that tie in with the wine theme. Put in a welded spiral staircase while you're at it.
This is the final project of the renovation of an old church into a winery. At this point, only the foundation and frame are original to the building. All of the electrical, plumbing, roofing, stone exterior...everything is brand new. $300K later, there is limited budget for building the decks. I need to keep the cost of materials below $4k. Hence, would must be used.

I think the feedback I need is more related to live/dead loads and whether or not the footings depicted will be sufficient.

Last edited by dutchswan; 05-23-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:25 AM   #5
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


A contractor should be able to help you out
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:35 AM   #6
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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A contractor should be able to help you out
I am a general contractor, but decks are not my expertise. There simply is not enough money left in the budget to subcontract this portion out. Believe me, I would love subcontract it out. But if one does not have the scratch to do so, one does what one can do get the job done.

Last edited by dutchswan; 05-23-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:36 AM   #7
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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A contractor should be able to help you out
Yea...

These are some seriously basic questions that anyone with experience should know. AND it should be noted on the approved plans, you do have a permit right?

So let me get this straight, you invest money in the renovation and then just say "Ah screw it, let's just slap some garbage up and call it good" when it comes to the deck. Seems like poor planning to me.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #8
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


Your design is plenty structurally adequate, do not notch 3x beam into a 6x post. And one other thing is, you're going to need to quadruple that budget
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:48 AM   #9
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan View Post
I think the feedback I need is more related to live/dead loads and whether or not the footings depicted will be sufficient.
Can't Johnny's Store (Menards) give you calcs on loads and resulting deflections based on your drawing?

What is your load criteria?
Soil conditions/geology?
Silty river bottom or Moraine or...?
Typical hard pan in the upper midwest comes in above 3200-3600lbs/sqft. Probably need something a bit more than 12" diameter footings on the upper deck

An Engineer's paid opinion would be advisable, if you the GC, are not confident
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #10
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF View Post
Yea...

These are some seriously basic questions that anyone with experience should know. AND it should be noted on the approved plans, you do have a permit right?

So let me get this straight, you invest money in the renovation and then just say "Ah screw it, let's just slap some garbage up and call it good" when it comes to the deck. Seems like poor planning to me.
As professionals, condescension does not become us. This is located in a town of 900 in rural Iowa. The permitting process only required the dimensions of the deck. Load calculations were not required, nor will inspection be required. Scary ... I know.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:57 AM   #11
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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Originally Posted by Texas Wax View Post
Can't Johnny's Store (Menards) give you calcs on loads and resulting deflections based on your drawing?

What is your load criteria?
Soil conditions/geology?
Silty river bottom or Moraine or...?
Typical hard pan in the upper midwest comes in above 3200-3600lbs/sqft. Probably need something a bit more than 12" diameter footings on the upper deck

An Engineer's paid opinion would be advisable, if you the GC, are not confident
Apologies. I knew I was leaving out some information.

Assume 50psf live/dead load.
Assume soil is sufficient for 2,200psf.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:02 PM   #12
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


If you are going to build decks, you should print this out and read it. Even if it has not been adopted by your AHJ, it is still very good guidelines.

http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:03 PM   #13
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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Your design is plenty structurally adequate, do not notch 3x beam into a 6x post. And one other thing is, you're going to need to quadruple that budget
I thought of setting it on top of the post, but also thought that perhaps the 1" of wood remaining from a notch could only aid in beam stabilization. I believe I don't really even need 3x beam construction with less than 5' spans. I am a creature of overkill. Perhaps I should just back off to 2x 2x12 beams and then notch out the beam.

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Old 05-23-2013, 12:06 PM   #14
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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Originally Posted by A.T.C. View Post
If you are going to build decks, you should print this out and read it. Even if it has not been adopted by your AHJ, it is still very good guidelines.

http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf
No doubt. With the exception of electrical, none of the work during this renovation even required a permit in the first place...and that is only because a 2009 Iowa law required areas without an inspection process to go through the state. I should note that everything was built to code even though permits and inspections were not always required. You want the building to last at least another 100 years before its next renovation
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:14 PM   #15
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Re: Deck Construction @ Winery: Review Our Plans?


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