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Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.

 
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:13 PM   #1
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Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Gentlemen,

My current job: Gut the main floor and a complete reno - update wiring, reinsulate, drywall, flooring, ceilings... I've sub-contracted some of the work to a general carpentry sub-contractor. He's got a small crew of a couple of young guys. They started today. End of the day, they've basically managed to gut a single 8x10 room and taken down the partition wall between it and the next room.

On my last job like this, me and the 60-year old guy I hired completely gutted a 600 sq ft apartment - kitchen & bathroom and all down to the studs - in a day and a half.

Always done all the work myself with a crew of my own choosing. So I'm not used to having to tell someone who's supposed to be an independent contractor that my standard of productivity is to be considered the proper standard and his crew's productivity isn't up to snuff. That is, I'm about to do some on the job learning about managing sub-contractors. Materials scheduling, estimation, that's one thing. A stud costs $X and you need Y of them, no problem. But "you're not working fast enough" is a little more vague and open to interpretation and getting into telling someone how to do their job.

Not sure what question I'm asking, except maybe other experiences with this.

Thanks.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:18 PM   #2
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


"couple young guys" is the key word here. Haven't been doing it long enough to bang it out quick.

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Old 11-04-2009, 07:19 PM   #3
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Are you paying them hourly? Do they have a schedule to meet?

2 options & both don't have to be independent of each other; the first - talk to the main boss, remind them of the schedule, etc... the second - give the crew a few pointers / idea's for speeding up / making life easier on them, etc...

If your paying them hourly - well you can always fire them....

Good luck
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:24 PM   #4
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Wood View Post
"couple young guys" is the key word here. Haven't been doing it long enough to bang it out quick.
Ya, I saw that too. Found them mid-day tapping at a wall with these little 12" pry bars - told them to be sure to come back tomorrow with sledge hammers and 3-foot wecking bars.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:28 PM   #5
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLSTech View Post
Are you paying them hourly? Do they have a schedule to meet?

2 options & both don't have to be independent of each other; the first - talk to the main boss, remind them of the schedule, etc... the second - give the crew a few pointers / idea's for speeding up / making life easier on them, etc...
Hourly, yes. Schedule, also. Spoke to the boss, a guy with the years, asked him to get in there tomorrow and give his kids some direction. He didn't take it badly, which tells me maybe he already knows. We'll see how it goes.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:31 PM   #6
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLSTech View Post
Are you paying them hourly? Do they have a schedule to meet?


Good luck
Agreed. SLS questions are important to assess if they were milking the job.

Was it up to them to read the framing to ensure it was a partition and not a lb wall. When I move a lb wall and re-header, etc, it takes me forever. I look at every possibility.

If they had no decisions to make and were just told what to demo, then they sound more than a little slow.

Was anyone supervising them?

Edit-questions answered and potential solution is in the making.
Good luck and let us know!
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Last edited by rselectric1; 11-04-2009 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:35 PM   #7
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rselectric1 View Post
Edit-questions answered and potential solution is in the making.
Good luck and let us know!
Will do - just curious in the meanime how this kind of thing goes down on other peoples' sites.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:53 PM   #8
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


I never have 'subbed' out the demo. If they are hourly and they came with no skills or knowledge, you have basically hired day laborers.

You are going to have to train them and ride shotgun over these guys.

Your problem is with the man you got them from. Sounds like he just sent you some warm bodies.

Good luck, Let us know how this works out.--MIKE--
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:57 PM   #9
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


x2 with mikeswood re: just a couple of warm bodies.

I have only subbed demo out on a few occassions, and it was to a demolition contractor - they get it done quick but clean-up and site protection is sub-par - I really had to be on them about it.

Could be too, that the 2 young guys you got were told by their boss to "milk it" because work was slow, etc.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:47 PM   #10
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


My 2 cents Are:

If your paying them who cares if you hurt their feelings for being slow, they won't know unless you say something. Also they could be feeling you out to see if your passive on how much time it takes.

2nd I would never leave the door wide open like that with someone new. I would ask for a bid the first time working with someone new. After a few times you'll have a good idea on how long it takes them. Then you have some ammo to compare to if they decied to slack.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:53 PM   #11
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_cntrctr View Post
Gentlemen,

My current job: Gut the main floor and a complete reno - update wiring, reinsulate, drywall, flooring, ceilings... I've sub-contracted some of the work to a general carpentry sub-contractor. He's got a small crew of a couple of young guys. They started today. End of the day, they've basically managed to gut a single 8x10 room and taken down the partition wall between it and the next room.

On my last job like this, me and the 60-year old guy I hired completely gutted a 600 sq ft apartment - kitchen & bathroom and all down to the studs - in a day and a half.

Always done all the work myself with a crew of my own choosing. So I'm not used to having to tell someone who's supposed to be an independent contractor that my standard of productivity is to be considered the proper standard and his crew's productivity isn't up to snuff. That is, I'm about to do some on the job learning about managing sub-contractors. Materials scheduling, estimation, that's one thing. A stud costs $X and you need Y of them, no problem. But "you're not working fast enough" is a little more vague and open to interpretation and getting into telling someone how to do their job.

Not sure what question I'm asking, except maybe other experiences with this.

Thanks.
Do it yourself. If you can do it so fast and well, Why did you hire someone else?
Did you expect them to be as good as you?
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:05 PM   #12
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


I do all the demo with some day laborers I get from Labor Ready all work comp etc.. $14.50 an hour per guy, too many variables to destroy with demo.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:08 PM   #13
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead View Post
Do it yourself. If you can do it so fast and well, Why did you hire someone else?
Did you expect them to be as good as you?

That's been my thinking for years, and that's why I dont make nearly as much money as I should. No one can ever do it as fast or as well as you, right?

I've finally started bringing others in for certain tasks, and it's a relief seeing the extra work being completed each week. In the OP's case, he made a mistake by hiring a "sub" on an hourly rate, and not opening his mouth when they move like snails... I can gut an 8x10 room by 11am all by myself!
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:19 PM   #14
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Seperate them, give them each an equal amount of work to do and offer the first done a cash bonus. Incentive is a beautiful thing.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:21 PM   #15
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


On 2 recent jobs, the demo guys my co-op hired would have done more damage than good.
If I wasn't there to supervise them, they would have ripped the kitchen sink along with all the plumbing right out of the wall. This among many other mechanical disasters they could have caused.

If you hire a demo crew (for kitchens or baths), my advice is to get there the day prior, dismantle the mechanicals, locate the areas and or walls you want demo'd, then stand there and direct traffic on demo day.

These friggin guys on the last job were going to tear down a load bearing wall, framing and all. Thank god I was there to tell them to stop and I just wanted the drywall removed from this wall.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:21 PM   #16
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardbros View Post
If your paying them who cares if you hurt their feelings for being slow, they won't know unless you say something.
This is a big one. Way too many guys will pay someone to do a job, and if it comes in sub-par for whatever reason, say nothing. They just don't call the guy for the next job.

That really does no one any good. Your sub (employee, whatever) needs feedback so that he can either adjust his procedures or keep them in place. Sure, he'll eventually figure it out by how many times he does or doesn't get a job from you, but if he really wants to do well, a good chunk of constructive criticism is the best thing you can do for him. And for you.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:39 PM   #17
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


I've found good demo guys have a certain mind set. Fast demo does require experience and it sounds like the laborers had neither.

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Last edited by Paulie; 11-15-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:02 PM   #18
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


I'm getting to old to do demo.It wipes me out.Kills my back.
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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:23 PM   #19
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


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I'm getting to old to do demo.It wipes me out.Kills my back.
In your photo, you look pretty fit. Except for that head of yours. How in the heck do you get turtlenecks over that?
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:30 PM   #20
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Re: Dealing With Differences Of Opinion On Productivity.


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In your photo, you look pretty fit. Except for that head of yours. How in the heck do you get turtlenecks over that?
I won't lie.That picture is a few years old.

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