Curious: Why Hire Union? - General Discussion - Contractor Talk

Curious: Why Hire Union?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-10-2012, 08:41 PM   #1
Master of Rocket Science
 
finakat's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 132
Rewards Points: 123

Curious: Why Hire Union?


I wanted to start a separate thread for this since all the other union threads are more geared towards opinions and debate. Me and s co-worker were wondering this the other day and couldn't find a logical answer.

What's the purpose of a contractor becoming union? If he could easily hire non-union labor and increase his profit? In this case how would unions even survive aside from govt projects?

Id like to hear it from the bigger commercial contractors who deal with union and non. I understand there are tax write offs and etc but what else? Is it the pressure? Perhaps some networking, fringe benefits?

Please respond only with straight facts. If this turns into a thread like the last union one the mods are likely to shut it down.
finakat is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-10-2012, 09:11 PM   #2
Pro
 
Gary H's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Munger Michigan
Posts: 2,910
Rewards Points: 2,342

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


well rereading the whole union thread, you will see that there are many facts for a union contractor and for not being a union contractor. There has been many seasoned contractors from both sides of the fence that has added their experices. Almost all of it is true. Also many carpenters have addded their experice. I doubt any of us could add more to it other then starting another war that gets no where.

You could PM the members that you have serious questions about thier stand point.

Advertisement

Gary H is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Gary H For This Useful Post:
falcon1 (03-10-2012)
Old 03-10-2012, 09:26 PM   #3
Pro
 
slowsol's Avatar
 
Trade: Estimator / Preconstruction Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 2,572
Rewards Points: 2,248

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


I work for a large commercial gc. We only hire union contractors in cities where the union presence is very strong, and even then only on certain projects. We have done mixed jobs (union and non union) and it is a pain the butt.

We build mostly apartments, nursing homes, senior apartments, etc. Mostly wood frame.
__________________
-John
slowsol is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-10-2012, 10:25 PM   #4
Pro
 
KAP's Avatar
 
Trade: Custom
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,647
Rewards Points: 36,840

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Why Hire Union?... If for no other reason to show you that you can charge more than you are now...
KAP is offline  
Old 03-10-2012, 10:46 PM   #5
Pro
 
Dirtywhiteboy's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Framing- Roof Stacking
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Honolulu Oahu,Hawaii
Posts: 15,997
Rewards Points: 12,998

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
These things still mean something to some people.
__________________
I Have Done So Much With So Little For So Long, I Can Do Almost Anything With Nothing Now
Dirtywhiteboy is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dirtywhiteboy For This Useful Post:
JDavis21835 (03-11-2012), KAP (03-10-2012)
Old 03-10-2012, 10:55 PM   #6
Pro
 
detroit687's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 662
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


I own a union company and bid on both union and non union work.
Its less of a head ache to hire union employees imo
My guys have there osha 30 and ingersol rand hardware certs they dont miss time there reliable. Theres a big difference when paying someone 46 compared to 25. And thats union or non union.
I really dont see a benefit to go non union maybe my profit margins would go up maybe. But i would definetly lose my core group of guys. And then im down to dealing with the problems of a carpenter whos willing to work for 25 an hour and no benefits. This is the benefit for me a small contractor im sure there are benefits to the larger companys
detroit687 is offline  
Old 03-10-2012, 11:34 PM   #7
Pro
 
VinylHanger's Avatar
 
Trade: I'll do that for 500 bucks.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 10,109
Rewards Points: 11,616

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Can't you go non-union and still pay 45 a hour?
__________________
Your emergency does not constitute a problem with my Constitution.
VinylHanger is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to VinylHanger For This Useful Post:
Gary H (03-12-2012)
Old 03-10-2012, 11:36 PM   #8
Every now and then poster
 
ohiohomedoctor's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Remodeling Professional
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 13,436
Rewards Points: 3,544

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


I hired a union guy to do some drywall for me since I have been pre-occupied and all I can say is wow. Cleanest work I have ever seen.
ohiohomedoctor is offline  
Old 03-10-2012, 11:48 PM   #9
Pro
 
detroit687's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 662
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Yes and some of my guys would like that but my forman would say fu and go work for some one else to get his 85 points so he can retire.
And there are not that many non union applicants out there that meet my requirements. Certs drug tests commercial back ground. They either own there own co or are a forman elsewhere. And the little amount of work i get from signatory union gcs i wouldnt.
The apprenticeship program here is good.
detroit687 is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 12:27 AM   #10
The Grand Wazoo
 
KillerToiletSpider's Avatar
 
Trade: It blowed up real good!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,967
Rewards Points: 2,012

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtywhiteboy View Post
To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
These things still mean something to some people.
There is also the savings of not having to train your work force, a call to the hall will get you a journeyman that is already trained to do his trade. There is also the benefits, you as an employer pay one a weekly figure to the local per employee and they have all the benefits offered by the local, as opposed to you either not providing benefits, or paying much higher premiums for small group insurance.

Being union allows you to only staff the number of people you need at any given time, if times are slow you send them back to the hall as opposed to trying to scramble to find something for your guys to do to prevent them from quitting on you from lack of work.

Other benefits from hiring union are going to vary by location, in cities with a large union presence a lot of the larger jobs are going to be union only jobs out of necessity, so it can open up more bidding opportunities.
__________________
I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride.
KillerToiletSpider is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 12:42 AM   #11
Pro
 
detroit687's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 662
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


I wont hire people from the hall in my opinion you get the bottom of the barrel
detroit687 is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 01:04 AM   #12
The Sheriff

 
Jaws's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,441
Rewards Points: 13,672

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


You usually get well trained carpenters, and can call from the hall for more if needs it. They are like any other group, some have work ethic, some don't. The one issue I saw that was common with ones I worked around, was that they were very particular about not doing work that was not what they thought they should be doing. Also if it got over 101 degrees they roll up?? They usually worked from 7 to 330, so usually wasn't a problem.

Here union boys get 500$ health insurance and 23$ an hour for journeyman, 24$ for crew foreman's, 25$ for section foreman's. Not 45$, not even with benifits. Most companies had paid holidays and NO vacation. I am non union and have paid holidays and vacation.

One thing I didn't like was that you could bypass much of the four year apprenticeship. Could just be regional though. Union doesn't have any pull here.
Jaws is online now  
Old 03-11-2012, 01:32 AM   #13
Pro
 
Dirtywhiteboy's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Framing- Roof Stacking
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Honolulu Oahu,Hawaii
Posts: 15,997
Rewards Points: 12,998

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpider View Post
There is also the savings of not having to train your work force, a call to the hall will get you a journeyman that is already trained to do his trade. There is also the benefits, you as an employer pay one a weekly figure to the local per employee and they have all the benefits offered by the local, as opposed to you either not providing benefits, or paying much higher premiums for small group insurance.

Being union allows you to only staff the number of people you need at any given time, if times are slow you send them back to the hall as opposed to trying to scramble to find something for your guys to do to prevent them from quitting on you from lack of work.

Other benefits from hiring union are going to vary by location, in cities with a large union presence a lot of the larger jobs are going to be union only jobs out of necessity, so it can open up more bidding opportunities.
Thank You very well put
__________________
I Have Done So Much With So Little For So Long, I Can Do Almost Anything With Nothing Now
Dirtywhiteboy is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:29 AM   #14
Member
 
falcon1's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential contractor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 96
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtywhiteboy
To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
These things still mean something to some people.
As if private contractors don't pay well and only hire illegals. People don't usually care what you do as long as long as you get the job done on tie and on budget. We're not social agencies. We actually use our own money and need to make a profit to survive.
falcon1 is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:42 AM   #15
I own stock in FotoMat!
 
480sparky's Avatar
 
Trade: 132 on Bush, I've got him at gunpoint!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 12,153
Rewards Points: 12,304

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtywhiteboy View Post
To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
These things still mean something to some people.
So non-union contractors only hire dead aliens?
__________________
This post has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit this screen and edited for content.
480sparky is online now  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:57 AM   #16
Doug
 
room2roof's Avatar
 
Trade: roofing, remodeling & painting
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: charlotte nc
Posts: 96
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Why Hire Union?... If for no other reason to show you that you can charge more than you are now...
The Union fights for employees rights for a better wage and has a great apprenticeship program with on the job and classroom training....I was Union back in NYC but now here in Charlotte NC there is no Union and I have to train my own employees........."Anyone can pull a Tooth out but it takes Schooling to become a Dentist" lol...

Charlotte Roofing, Remodeling and Painting Contractors - NC

room2roof is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 03:21 PM   #17
Pro
 
Brickie's Avatar
 
Trade: One on top of Two
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,444
Rewards Points: 570

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
There is also the savings of not having to train your work force, a call to the hall will get you a journeyman that is already trained to do his trade.
That's not true


Quote:
Being union allows you to only staff the number of people you need at any given time, if times are slow you send them back to the hall as opposed to trying to scramble to find something for your guys to do to prevent them from quitting on you from lack of work.
It's the same thing. Lay people off is just that laying people off.


Quote:
Other benefits from hiring union are going to vary by location, in cities with a large union presence a lot of the larger jobs are going to be union only jobs out of necessity,
Not true. It's called a Project Labor Agreement which restricts free & open competition for projects. It's the only way unions can survive in a free market


Quote:
so it can open up more bidding opportunities.
That's not true. Private sector unions continue to lose market share all over the country. More & more states are passing Anti-Project Labor Agreement laws which means even less market market share for union contractors.
__________________
Indiana is a Right To Work State. Proud To Be Non-Union
Brickie is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 03:46 PM   #18
Pro
 
Dirtywhiteboy's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Framing- Roof Stacking
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Honolulu Oahu,Hawaii
Posts: 15,997
Rewards Points: 12,998

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickie View Post
That's not true
Yes it is



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickie View Post
It's the same thing. Lay people off is just that laying people off.
But when your in a union your family gets to keep their health inc. for the next year or so till your reemployed



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickie View Post
Not true. It's called a Project Labor Agreement which restricts free & open competition for projects. It's the only way unions can survive in a free market
Yes it is, but your free and open really means pay as little as possible and treat them any way you want to. And pay the illegals cash on Friday. I really am tired of hearing of this so called free market place when we all know it's rigged from the top all the way down and the ones that profit the most are the fat cats on the top. Take your free market and tell it to someone that doesn't know any better. In your free market place, Red Lobster buys shrimp from Thailand and China at 2.50a lb. and resales them for 24$ a lb. with huge pics of gulf shrimping boats all over their walls Man could I go on an on good thing I can't type !



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickie View Post
That's not true. Private sector unions continue to lose market share all over the country. More & more states are passing Anti-Project Labor Agreement laws which means even less market market share for union contractors.
Yea your right again, because the crooks in government want the illegals vote
__________________
I Have Done So Much With So Little For So Long, I Can Do Almost Anything With Nothing Now
Dirtywhiteboy is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 03:51 PM   #19
I own stock in FotoMat!
 
480sparky's Avatar
 
Trade: 132 on Bush, I've got him at gunpoint!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 12,153
Rewards Points: 12,304

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtywhiteboy View Post
Yes it is
So if you ALWAYS get a JW, where do the union apprentices work for the first five years of their careers?
__________________
This post has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit this screen and edited for content.

Last edited by 480sparky; 03-11-2012 at 05:14 PM.
480sparky is online now  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:59 PM   #20
Hair Splitter
 
TNTRenovate's Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 18,322
Rewards Points: 1,268

Re: Curious: Why Hire Union?


Gotta love the unions:


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


You guys can keep your unions!

http://influencepeddler.blogspot.com...-industry.html

http://www.examiner.com/conservative...-auto-industry

Advertisement

__________________
Tried & True on Facebook
Tried & True Website
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
TNTRenovate is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TNTRenovate For This Useful Post:
A-1 Interiors (07-08-2012), CO762 (03-11-2012)



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sub or hire ???? Opinions ?? Leafan General Discussion 30 12-15-2010 10:58 AM
Carpenters Union Ticked Off ? Plumber_Bill General Discussion 12 10-08-2009 06:29 PM
Do you need a Union Painter around Chicago, IL? OSully67 Help Wanted or Looking For Work 14 09-26-2009 10:34 AM
Considering Going Union..Opinions? Mud Master Business 21 02-04-2009 06:47 PM
Both union-non union GTOlvr General Discussion 3 12-08-2008 12:57 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?