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Old 05-13-2014, 11:06 PM   #81
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Old 05-13-2014, 11:08 PM   #82
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Yeah, I'll care what you think when you put more than 200 post a year into this place.
Thanks for the advise!
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:19 PM   #83
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Thanks for the advice!
What advice? I didn't give you any advice. I just told you what I thought of your insight.

Now if I told you that you needed to put in more than 200 posts in a year to be taken seriously, that would be advice. But you'll blow out again, and it won't matter.

And I fixed your spelling.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:28 PM   #84
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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What advice? I didn't give you any advice. I just told you what I thought of your insight.

Now if I told you that you needed to put in more than 200 posts in a year to be taken seriously, that would be advice. But you'll blow out again, and it won't matter.

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And I fixed your spelling
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:08 AM   #85
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


I was having dinner last night, I was sitting at the bar and I had a call from my mason, so we discussed a few things about the project I'm doing, and the guy next to me was a Construction Attorney, who only handles cases related to construction industry, so he overheard me talking and he striked a general conversation, how is business, etc.

So I asked him how does the law treats general contract litigation if the matter goes before the judge...and he said if there is the meeting of the minds, any contract is valid even a verbal one.
He said the judge will not rip into a contractor for not having a contract which covers every angle so to speak because contractors are not lawyers and most cannot structure a contract if theirs life depended on, and nobody is going to spend money so someone can structure a perfect contract for them for each specific job, because every job is different and every contract will require modification.
He said, the most important thing the court looks at, is who breached the agreement.
If a HO at fault he will be punished to make the contractor whole. If a contractor is there for doing a bad job, failure or refusal to comply with what was agreed, he will be punished to make the HO whole.

Of course anything in writing like description of what will be done, and what is included, the total cost and a signature whether its written on the napkin or a toilet paper will help the case, and as long as the Judge can see there was a meeting of the mind.... that's all anybody needs to have if it goes to court.
Verbal contracts are harder to prove and Judges go on case to case bases and weed out who is full of ****.
But before any matter goes before the Judge, there is mediation process before that and 85% of the time the matter will be settled there... because you have 2 people (HO and Contractor) and when everything out on the table, its pretty much straight forward who is at fault... Not like here, where we hear only one side.

If someone is unlicensed performs work and he is dragged to court for ripping someone off, or doing a botched up job, than he will be judged by the book and he will punished to the letter of the law for everything, i.e working without a license, not having a contract (if there is a contract, than for everything that should be in the contract, etc) and all the legalities of consumer protection fraud.
If he is unlicensed and he takes people to court for none payment, he will not get a dime no matter what... BUT he can keep the money which he already got for the work he did... Unless HO can prove he messed up and they have to pay someone else to fix and counter-sue him, most likely he will lose if there is proof and other contractor's statement that the work he did does not meet the industry standard practices.

With that said, the OP had the signed proposal (contract) and he had the signature of acceptance, and he should be compensated what what he is out and his right to make a profit. As the receipt goes, he don't have to disclose anything to her, he has the right under the law not to reveal trades pricing and he has every right to make profit on the material. Period.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:35 AM   #86
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


Boys, I don't know how I've ever survived in business as long as I have. I do know one thing, I'm sure glad I live where I live, a place where a mans word & a handshake still mean something.

I don't have even a 1 page contract. I do have one paragraph at the bottom of my bid sheet with a place for myself & my client to sign, but they rarely get signed by either of us. If the hackles on the back of my neck start twitching, I'll ask for a signature & a deposit.

After reading some of these threads, I'm sure I'm doomed for failure & a lawsuit that's gonna take me for everthing I own.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:56 AM   #87
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Originally Posted by pinwheel
Boys, I don't know how I've ever survived in business as long as I have. I do know one thing, I'm sure glad I live where I live, a place where a mans word & a handshake still mean something. I don't have even a 1 page contract. I do have one paragraph at the bottom of my bid sheet with a place for myself & my client to sign, but they rarely get signed by either of us. If the hackles on the back of my neck start twitching, I'll ask for a signature & a deposit. After reading some of these threads, I'm sure I'm doomed for failure & a lawsuit that's gonna take me for everthing I own.
you miss the point of contracts. It's not a trust issue, it's so you know that they know what to expect from you. And reassurance you are both on the same page.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:05 AM   #88
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


I've never needed my seatbelt in 34 years of riding in cars. I still put it on.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:11 AM   #89
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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I've never needed my seatbelt in 34 years of riding in cars. I still put it on.
yeah, some people that smoke never get lung cancer.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:20 AM   #90
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Yeah, I'll care what you think when you put more than 200 post a year into this place.
Because having more then 200 posts a year here makes you an expert at anything other then sitting on your butt in front of a computer?


But hey continue being a huge DB, it really is entertaining.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:27 PM   #91
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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you miss the point of contracts. It's not a trust issue, it's so you know that they know what to expect from you. And reassurance you are both on the same page.
No, I don't miss the point. They do know what to expect from me, because chances are, if I'm in their home, it's because I've already worked for someone they know & I've been the subject of at least one conversation.

The reassurance we're on the same page, comes from talking & listening to each other. I spell out on my bid sheet what I'm going to do & for what price I'm going to do it for.


I'm getting older & prone to being set in my ways, so I don't see the need to start fixing something that's not broke. The last several years, my accountant has asked if we have any unpaid losses to claim. The answer is always no, our clientele pays their bills.

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Old 05-14-2014, 12:53 PM   #92
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Because having more then 200 posts a year here makes you an expert at anything other then sitting on your butt in front of a computer?


But hey continue being a huge DB, it really is entertaining.
Funny you think that way. Maybe you should read the entire thread and his and my comment in context.

Pollbarns made a comment that the OP was a one and done and then comment who cares. I responded to that post explaining that it doesn't matter who started the conversation or if they stuck around to see it's end.

Then Kev made a comment on the validitiy of the OP. Again, I am just defending the position that it doesn't matter who started it, we were all having a delightful conversation until then. I wasn't being a DB at all.

My issue is if you are only going to contribute a few hundred posts a year keep you really haven't earned the right to start bagging on an OP for a thread that was created less than a day. My point was if he was someone that contributed more often and had to deal with it all of the time, then I wouldn't be so harsh.

Also taking into account that he commented on my post first and I was simply letting him know how I felt about his opinion of the matter. No different than a laborer on my site that has only been there a few days. They haven't contributed enough to start telling me or others that they are doing something wrong or question someone's intentions or motives.

So in this case post count does play a big role, IMO.

I also browsed this thread and noticed that you have contributed nothing to the topic or conversation and have contributed even less than he has to the forum, so I really don't care what you think. Try not being a troll next time.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:17 PM   #93
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Funny you think that way. Maybe you should read the entire thread and his and my comment in context.
I did.

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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Pollbarns made a comment that the OP was a one and done and then comment who cares. I responded to that post explaining that it doesn't matter who started the conversation or if they stuck around to see it's end.
It does and doesn't matter. The op may never come back, and likely won't after what was said. On the other hand others may learn from the experience.

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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Then Kev made a comment on the validitiy of the OP. Again, I am just defending the position that it doesn't matter who started it, we were all having a delightful conversation until then. I wasn't being a DB at all.
Again point is, some people do care and some don't care. Making posts about how many post one has equals the right to talk on a public forum does make you a DB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
My issue is if you are only going to contribute a few hundred posts a year keep you really haven't earned the right to start bagging on an OP for a thread that was created less than a day. My point was if he was someone that contributed more often and had to deal with it all of the time, then I wouldn't be so harsh.
Where in the forum have you ever seen people of various post counts not 'bag' on one and done posters? It's all over, has nothing to do with how many posts one has.

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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Also taking into account that he commented on my post first and I was simply letting him know how I felt about his opinion of the matter. No different than a laborer on my site that has only been there a few days. They haven't contributed enough to start telling me or others that they are doing something wrong or question someone's intentions or motives.
Being a laborer on a new job is nothing like being in a public forum. On a public forum people who have less posts could have a ton of knowledge about a subject, and people who have lots of posts could know very little. As far as the OP's question, of course it's wrong to run off with a deposit and materials. That makes you a crook. Now is it wrong to with hold some of the deposit to be compensated for your time. NO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
So in this case post count does play a big role, IMO.

I also browsed this thread and noticed that you have contributed nothing to the topic or conversation and have contributed even less than he has to the forum, so I really don't care what you think. Try not being a troll next time.
You are correct I haven't contributed up until now. I don't post just to get my post count up like some others here. If you notice where I post it's mostly in the roofing section. I rarely venture out in to the other areas to just get my post count up. What you do or don't care about makes no different to me. If calling you a DB makes me a toll then so be it.

If constantly commenting on topics just for the post count makes you in some odd way an expert on the forums then that's pretty sad IMO. Of course everything you have said on this forum is law so I guess we should all bow down to your holiness.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:16 PM   #94
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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I did.

Nah, it was obvious that you didn't.


It does and doesn't matter. The op may never come back, and likely won't after what was said. On the other hand others may learn from the experience.

It's not been two days. It's not been weeks. Get over it.

Again point is, some people do care and some don't care. Making posts about how many post one has equals the right to talk on a public forum does make you a DB.

I never said that he didn't have the right to talk on a public forum. It was what he commented about. I don't think you or he has the right to start posting on threads about someone not coming back after a day. It's ridiculous.

Where in the forum have you ever seen people of various post counts not 'bag' on one and done posters? It's all over, has nothing to do with how many posts one has.

Contribution to the forum is pretty important. I have seen guys like this for years. They come on contribute very little and feel the right to complain. I would be a whole lot more understanding if they thread was a month old, but it's a few days. While you guys might be right, you have to give someone a few days to get back.

Being a laborer on a new job is nothing like being in a public forum. On a public forum people who have less posts could have a ton of knowledge about a subject, and people who have lots of posts could know very little. As far as the OP's question, of course it's wrong to run off with a deposit and materials. That makes you a crook. Now is it wrong to with hold some of the deposit to be compensated for your time. NO.

Again, we are not talking about knowledge on subjects, just the right to bitch and complain about a guy who didn't return after one day and from someone who hasn't contributed the site.

You are correct I haven't contributed up until now. I don't post just to get my post count up like some others here. If you notice where I post it's mostly in the roofing section. I rarely venture out in to the other areas to just get my post count up. What you do or don't care about makes no different to me. If calling you a DB makes me a toll then so be it.

Calling me names doesn't make you a troll. hoping on a thread that you haven't contributed to and bagging on someone who has, makes you one. And if you don't venture that much out of the roofing section you would know that the majority of my posts are contributory in nature and have nothing to do with post whoring.

If constantly commenting on topics just for the post count makes you in some odd way an expert on the forums then that's pretty sad IMO. Of course everything you have said on this forum is law so I guess we should all bow down to your holiness.
Your last statement is just ridiculous. You are trying to make this out to be something that it is not. No where have I commented on post count to knowledge ratio. No where have I said that the higher your count the more of an expert you are in an area. It's more about contribution and count is an indicator to your level of participation and thus contribution to the forum. I have mad respect for guys like Angus, Inner, Carpenter, most of the MODs and anyone with a over 5000 posts. You don't last that long post boosting and will get called on it pretty quickly.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:22 PM   #95
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


okay ladies lets tone it down.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:24 PM   #96
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Boys, I don't know how I've ever survived in business as long as I have. I do know one thing, I'm sure glad I live where I live, a place where a mans word & a handshake still mean something.

I don't have even a 1 page contract. I do have one paragraph at the bottom of my bid sheet with a place for myself & my client to sign, but they rarely get signed by either of us. If the hackles on the back of my neck start twitching, I'll ask for a signature & a deposit.

After reading some of these threads, I'm sure I'm doomed for failure & a lawsuit that's gonna take me for everthing I own.
Gotta say I am with Ken on this one. I guess if you are just a hardwood floor installer there isn't as much that needs to be covered and the expectations are pretty clear. However when you are renovating a master bath, things need to be spelled out.

Contracts are more for making sure there are no misunderstandings and less about being dragged into court. But in the case that you are your butt is covered. I don't have fire insurance because I plan on my house catching fire, but if it does happen, I am covered.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:25 PM   #97
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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I did.

It does and doesn't matter. The op may never come back, and likely won't after what was said. On the other hand others may learn from the experience.

Again point is, some people do care and some don't care. Making posts about how many post one has equals the right to talk on a public forum does make you a DB.

Where in the forum have you ever seen people of various post counts not 'bag' on one and done posters? It's all over, has nothing to do with how many posts one has.

Being a laborer on a new job is nothing like being in a public forum. On a public forum people who have less posts could have a ton of knowledge about a subject, and people who have lots of posts could know very little. As far as the OP's question, of course it's wrong to run off with a deposit and materials. That makes you a crook. Now is it wrong to with hold some of the deposit to be compensated for your time. NO.

You are correct I haven't contributed up until now. I don't post just to get my post count up like some others here. If you notice where I post it's mostly in the roofing section. I rarely venture out in to the other areas to just get my post count up. What you do or don't care about makes no different to me. If calling you a DB makes me a toll then so be it.

If constantly commenting on topics just for the post count makes you in some odd way an expert on the forums then that's pretty sad IMO. Of course everything you have said on this forum is law so I guess we should all bo down to your holiness.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:33 PM   #98
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


I see we are back to the old TNT is lent over or something?
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:36 PM   #99
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


I agree Pinwheel, I am nervous that I could get sued because of no contract but my clients are either repeat customers or directly referred to me. I spell out exactly what I am going to do in the bid and I always go over and above, I can not half ass anything. Yeah it costs me money most of the time but it's also my "reputation". I do not upcharge for small things, I just fix them. Only had 1 real complaint and they were people no one could please.

I bid a large deck job, 12k in composite deck and talked to the city about the permit. They ok'd it verbally, wanted to get started right away so I ordered and paid for the special order color. 2 weeks later, permit denied, deck to big for allowable in the area of town, over the 33% structure on property. I kept 4k of deck boards (still have them, lol) and never made customer pay for it. I guess what I'm saying, I do whats right.

So return the money, deliver the product if that helps to calm things and give them the balance. People talk and word of mouth can hurt you, be as nice as possible and move past it. We are in the customer service field and I do as much as I can to assist my customers, that's why they call me.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:41 PM   #100
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Re: Client Wants Deposit Back


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Your last statement is just ridiculous. You are trying to make this out to be something that it is not. No where have I commented on post count to knowledge ratio. No where have I said that the higher your count the more of an expert you are in an area. It's more about contribution and count is an indicator to your level of participation and thus contribution to the forum. I have mad respect for guys like Angus, Inner, Carpenter, most of the MODs and anyone with a over 5000 posts. You don't last that long post boosting and will get called on it pretty quickly.
Since the rest of what you replied to was pretty much crap I'll only comment on this. The point being, you are bagging on a guy because he doesn't have a high post count. All because he said something about a one and done poster. How many times have we seen a one and done poster? A lot. The far superior attitude that seems to come from some high post count people is ridiculous at best. There is two completely different things between contribution and quality of contribution. I woudn't be so hung up on high post counts and giving mad respect to people have high post counts as I would the knowledge and information behind the post counts. So basically what I'm saying is post counts mean little to nothing other then you have the time to sit and post. A person should be measured by the quality behind the posts.

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