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Old 03-22-2012, 09:46 PM   #61
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Re: Burned Out


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In my past life, when I managed lots of people...I used to hate it when somebody asked for a raise because their car payment was too high.
I agree 100%. I hate it too.

As far as charging the correct amount, I don't think from his posts KC Remodeling is living beyond his means

Imo, the correct price does range due to ones overhead. I get under bid regularly by a two man band working out of his garage and truck. It is what it is. I have a much larger overhead and expect to make a reasonable profit. I commend him for his choices, lord knows the appeal to do the same thing is strong for me sometimes. He's happy, does good work and I imagine he will continue beating my prices and making a profit. As he should.

Thank god there aren't many good ones like him, and thank god for referrals. Lol
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:49 PM   #62
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Re: Burned Out


I am starting to think jobs can be completed more e$$icently using specialized subs.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:49 PM   #63
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Re: Burned Out


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wow..you actually are a sidingsweetie
Well, Tom, you're making this Southern girl blush. I wish I could claim the title of 'Sweetie' 100% of the time, even 75%........but I have some Spanish blood running in my veins......sooooooo......lol.

Siding'beach' didn't quite have a ring to it. :-/
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:50 PM   #64
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Re: Burned Out


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Thats funny. I tried one the other day, not my cup of tea. I can vouch for their effectiveness though so long as you construe energy as a jittery dumbfounded feeling.
I need to cut back on the coffee, but I'm cutting back on the grub, so hard to do. I rarely take 5 hour, I doubt its healthy. Jittery I can handle as long as I'm producing. I rarely drink either. I love beer, but the old lady doesn't take to drinking all the time and its hard on the weight.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:50 PM   #65
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Re: Burned Out


Kc's website is on the first page for basement finishing nationally.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:52 PM   #66
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Re: Burned Out


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Originally Posted by jawtrs

I need to cut back on the coffee, but I'm cutting back on the grub, so hard to do. I rarely take 5 hour, I doubt its healthy. Jittery I can handle as long as I'm producing. I rarely drink either. I love beer, but the old lady doesn't take to drinking all the time and its hard on the weight.
Im on a diet too. I have figured out the secret to alot of things. The secret to quiting smoking Dont Smoke. The secret to losing weight Eat Less. Food is harder than the cigs since I love good food so much.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:05 PM   #67
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Re: Burned Out


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I am starting to think jobs can be completed more e$$icently using specialized subs.
Me too. Lol

When I first came to work with my old man 3 years ago, I wanted everything inhouse. Now I see the light. Lol.

My painters are AWESOME, I mean that very seriously. BUT, they have NO sense of urgency and if no one is there to run them, somewhat inefficient. My brother works with them sometimes, but has been tunning jobs as a lead Carpenter and doing trim and interior framing.

I never make money off the paint on remodels or new homes, but the finish work is awesome, it is what sells us. I have been putting g more pressure on the lead painter to do things in order, and all like things at once. Hopefully makes us some money.

Additions and customs, we sub foundations, framing. Remodels, flooring, cabinets, some Drywall, electric, hvac, and plumbing. Most often showers too. We do interior framing, trim, some built ins and vanity, some drywall, closets, our closets are almost all custom, paint and cabinet finishes, hardware, porches, decks, boat docks, welding in house. Roofs and gutters are subbed to. We find it more profitable this way.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:06 PM   #68
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Re: Burned Out


Its not so much a burn out issue with me. Its more a funk. I will go through spurts when things are rolling great, then its like the rain clouds open and life is taking a dump on me. My stress level has more hills than a roller coaster. Last week things were going great. I've got plenty of work, and then my carpenter call me at 7:00 tonight and says he wont be there tomorrow, he is quitting. Awesome! I have a siding job starting Monday that I can not push off. I call my list of friends and other contractors I sub with occasionally. Everyone is slammed and cant free up a guy. Guess I'm doing 15 sq of siding myself.

I just try to stay focused and tell myself its worth it in the long run. If I can grow my business and live comfortably, give my kids the things they need, and be able to travel and do as we wish in the future, it is worth it. For right now, I muck through it on the s***y days, and sail through on the great days.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:08 PM   #69
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Re: Burned Out


Quote:
Originally Posted by jawtrs

Me too. Lol

When I first came to work with my old man 3 years ago, I wanted everything inhouse. Now I see the light. Lol.

My painters are AWESOME, I mean that very seriously. BUT, they have NO sense of urgency and if no one is there to run them, somewhat inefficient. My brother works with them sometimes, but has been tunning jobs as a lead Carpenter and doing trim and interior framing.

I never make money off the paint on remodels or new homes, but the finish work is awesome, it is what sells us. I have been putting g more pressure on the lead painter to do things in order, and all like things at once. Hopefully makes us some money.

Additions and customs, we sub foundations, framing. Remodels, flooring, cabinets, some Drywall, electric, hvac, and plumbing. Most often showers too. We do interior framing, trim, some built ins and vanity, some drywall, closets, our closets are almost all custom, paint and cabinet finishes, hardware, porches, decks, boat docks, welding in house. Roofs and gutters are subbed to. We find it more profitable this way.
I would love to build a boat dock. Just not a huge market for that in Ohio.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:10 PM   #70
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Re: Burned Out


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Im on a diet too. I have figured out the secret to alot of things. The secret to quiting smoking Dont Smoke. The secret to losing weight Eat Less. Food is harder than the cigs since I love good food so much.
Yep. If I spent more time with my bags on, I'd be better off, but not happening right now. Got to watch what I eat now, I've always tended toward the gut, now my calorie burning is at a minimum. Can't eat much Mexican food and BBQ.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:14 PM   #71
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Re: Burned Out


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I would love to build a boat dock. Just not a huge market for that in Ohio.
Boat docks are awesome. We do steel with 2 7/8 drill stem for posts, concrete pan or decking. Hard ass work but fun.

Last edited by Jaws; 03-22-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:19 AM   #72
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Re: Burned Out


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If you haven't watched the entire skit, you don't know what you are missing. Look up Charlie Murphy David Chappelle.

Nice one Warner!
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You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:58 AM   #73
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Re: Burned Out


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I'd just try to make sure you aren't living beyond your means and expecting the customer to pay for it.
I think that this may illustrate some of the problem I am dealing with here. You think I'm getting rich off $35K but that's nowhere near the case. The guy that bid it at $25K probably thinks he is going to make good money on this job. It will likely be next year before he realizes he didn't make any. And BTW, the numbers are irrelevant as I did not describe the scope of work. I could have just as easily said $75K.

I'm not asking for anything special here I just want some of the same luxuries that corporate America enjoys. The standard benefits an average company offers, makes up for 43% of their overall expenditure for an employee.
Dental Plan
Health Insurance
401K
Vacations
Workers Compensation for myself
Short term disability Insurance
Long term disability Insurance
Paid time off
Sick Days
Why is the guy wearing a suit to work everyday covered in the event of an accident and the guy running the circular saw isn't?

You also have to consider the amount of time that goes into setting up all the jobs. I spend a considerable amount of time sending email, doing bids, accounting, marketing, and other paperwork. My time on the job site only makes up for roughly 2/3 of my total hours.


If I am making $15K on a job that takes two months...

Profit is $7K per month...

Overhead, Insurance, and Equipment is $1K per month...

Benefits are $3K per month...

I'm left with $4k at the end of the month and a 70 hour work week...

I made $14 per hour...

I have over simplified this quite a bit as there are many expenses that I did not figure, but I think you get the idea.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:57 PM   #74
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Re: Burned Out


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I think that this may illustrate some of the problem I am dealing with here. You think I'm getting rich off $35K but that's nowhere near the case. The guy that bid it at $25K probably thinks he is going to make good money on this job. It will likely be next year before he realizes he didn't make any. And BTW, the numbers are irrelevant as I did not describe the scope of work. I could have just as easily said $75K.

I'm not asking for anything special here I just want some of the same luxuries that corporate America enjoys. The standard benefits an average company offers, makes up for 43% of their overall expenditure for an employee.
Dental Plan
Health Insurance
401K
Vacations
Workers Compensation for myself
Short term disability Insurance
Long term disability Insurance
Paid time off
Sick Days
Why is the guy wearing a suit to work everyday covered in the event of an accident and the guy running the circular saw isn't?

You also have to consider the amount of time that goes into setting up all the jobs. I spend a considerable amount of time sending email, doing bids, accounting, marketing, and other paperwork. My time on the job site only makes up for roughly 2/3 of my total hours.


If I am making $15K on a job that takes two months...

Profit is $7K per month...

Overhead, Insurance, and Equipment is $1K per month...

Benefits are $3K per month...

I'm left with $4k at the end of the month and a 70 hour work week...

I made $14 per hour...

I have over simplified this quite a bit as there are many expenses that I did not figure, but I think you get the idea.
The fine line that we walk is an entitlement attitude. Everything that you listed is a benefit and not a right.

I think that you really over simplified the comparison and really don't understand how larger corporations operate. It's just not an apples to apples comparison. They have loss leader items and can lose millions on one product while making it up in another. There are also big tax breaks the larger you become. Some say it isn't fair, but when you employee hundreds if not thousands of employees, and are creating and sustaining those jobs, it seems pretty fair to me. I know how difficult it is to run my small operation, I can't imagine the brains and muscle behind something even as big as 100 employees.

Should we be able to afford some of those perks? Sure. But I would rather be content in what I have been given, than covet that which someone else has.
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You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:21 PM   #75
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Re: Burned Out


Stop bidding and start selling. Price doesn't tell the customer anything about the company they are interviewing, its just a price. When you figure out how to take low "bids" and turn them into sales tools you'll stop carrying around that " other guy's alot cheaper than me " anchor that seems to weigh you down. By specializing in basment finishes you're going to get alot of low overhead, improperly insured and liscensed competition. Its always been that way. Find your advantage and sell it for all its worth.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:29 PM   #76
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The fine line that we walk is an entitlement attitude. Everything that you listed is a benefit and not a right.

I think that you really over simplified the comparison and really don't understand how larger corporations operate. It's just not an apples to apples comparison. They have loss leader items and can lose millions on one product while making it up in another. There are also big tax breaks the larger you become. Some say it isn't fair, but when you employee hundreds if not thousands of employees, and are creating and sustaining those jobs, it seems pretty fair to me. I know how difficult it is to run my small operation, I can't imagine the brains and muscle behind something even as big as 100 employees.

Should we be able to afford some of those perks? Sure. But I would rather be content in what I have been given, than covet that which someone else has.
Well said, I agree. I took what KC wrote as he is working toward pricing his work to achieve those things, though. If his work warrants it, why not?

Entitlement vs privilege is a wide spread problem.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #77
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Re: Burned Out


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Everything that you listed is a benefit and not a right.
If I took on a job working for somebody else, these are all things I would request or demand from an employer. So why should it be any different when I am running my own business?

Nobody wants to think about the possibility of getting hurt or injured but we all run the risk of experiencing an accident. It would really hit you hard if you are unable to work and got stuck with thousands in medical bills. Something like that could put you out of business for good.

It's not that I have a sense of entitlement, I just want to protect all that I have invested into my business.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:18 PM   #78
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Re: Burned Out


Good grief.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #79
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Re: Burned Out


I'm with KC on this one. Example - I can get a job working for someone else right now at $30/hr. That times 1.4 to cover the costs of having me makes it $42/hr.

Now they need to make a profit on me. If they were to add 30% that brings the rate to $54.60/hr.

As a general rule companies take their actual rate they pay an employee and double it. I know for a fact that the large contractors do this. Union carpenter is now $47.50/hr. They double that number. So residential customers are already getting a discount price.

So that means they're charging $60/hr. for me. This is the going rate in the Toronto area. So if I charge a client $50/hr, they're getting a deal.

So by the time I pay for all those things I would get anyways, I'm back to wages. Anyone who works for wage rate and has their own company will soon be out of business.

You need to be charging enough to cover all these things. Otherwise you'll end up making $10/hr. May as well go take a job somewhere then.
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #80
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Re: Burned Out


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Good grief.

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