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Old 02-04-2018, 04:51 AM   #21
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Re: Builders Competition


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Originally Posted by JoshN View Post
If Iím illiterate how did I manage to pass all my general English classes for my major with As?
I understand my post was a little sloppy. It was also written at 11pm when I was exausted from 10 hours of classes and work.
Iíll admit it wasnít my best spelling or grammar but I was trying to write something quick just for a couple quick pointers on where to dive into a bid a competition not to get a lecture on how I have no aspirations or how I wonít advance.
Josh
So, you are asking for good advice, but the members of this forum don't deserve your best English?

Really, you are a whiny child.

Those don't do well in the business world.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:10 AM   #22
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Re: Builders Competition


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I don't think his English is that bad. Mine's not perfect either, but I learned a few basic rules that go a long way to making me seem like less of an idiot.
Pay attention class!

Two = 2
To is the direction.
Too is in addition or too many. (you can remember this because it has too many o's)
I'm going to the store to buy two loaves of bread and I will pick up two gallons of milk too.

There = a place.
They're = they are.
Their = belongs to them.
They're going over there to pick up their tools.

Contractions. The ' means you took out a letter or two. It's = It is. Should've = should have. (and NEVER use "should of". It sounds right and spell check won't stop you, but you'll look like an idiot to anyone who graduated High School before 2000.)
We learned all that by the 7th grade.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:13 AM   #23
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Re: Builders Competition


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See, we are all human and we all make mistakes. Itís a whole heck of a lot easier to catch mistakes on a PC than on a iPhone. Mistakes donít always appear, on my phone atleast, and when you have to scroll up and down to proofread longer posts you can accidently miss things without even realizing it. When you read something you wrote, youíre mind will often play a truck where it reads it like you intended it to be written even if itís not there. Why authors have an outside person proofread for them.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:51 PM   #24
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Re: Builders Competition


Josh, here's hoping some more great minds on this forum step forward and give you some of the advice you asked for.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:02 PM   #25
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Re: Builders Competition


I put a lot of value on grammar. I always correct it when I see it.

Back to the estimating, spreadsheets are awesome. I have a master that I keep updating, it has a page for every trade and phase of a project. The first is site work and demo, then concrete, framing and so on. I include every piece of a building and itís set up to calculate the prices and quantities. The cool thing is that it keeps you from forgetting anything because itís all on there.

I also keep notes on past jobs so that I can compare what I bid for labor and what it took for labor.


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Old 02-04-2018, 03:04 PM   #26
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Re: Builders Competition


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We learned all that by the 7th grade.
Judging by what we see on too many of the posts here, I think we all learned a lot of stuff in 7th grade that we've now forgotten.

But let's get back to bids and estimating. Spreadsheets, notes, lessons learned, and experience will all help you tune your bids to make them more accurate. If you've never done the work it can be hard to correctly estimate the time required. I doubt any of us here have a perfect record of estimating exactly what it takes to get every job done and still make a profit.
Have you guys ever heard of the pro vs DIY time estimation formula? You take how long you think a project should take, double it, then increase the unit of measure. So a one hour project will actually take two days to fully complete. A two day project will take four weekends, one weekend is two weeks, one week will be two months, etc. It's good for a laugh or a reality check when your neighbor takes on some home improvement project, but it's also a good reminder when taking on a task that we've never done before that chances are it will take longer the first time you do it.
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:42 AM   #27
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Re: Builders Competition


Thanks. Luckily, I only have to come up with an estimate for the self performed part and then pick a sub from the bids for the rest. Just hard to make sure I donít miss anything important that would make a major difference in price. Missing a stud or 2 shouldnít have a major impact but missing a wall or 100 square feet of concrete easily could. It has 90 something pages of plans, around 1,000 pages of specs, plus around 200 pages in the scopes of work.
I was told by someone farther along in the program who is an advisor for our team that it would take pros who do nothing but this every day a couple weeks to do this.
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:53 AM   #28
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Re: Builders Competition


Now is the time to read all the specs and every other document you are given.

Eventually you recognize when you reading "boiler Plate" that is identical to the last five jobs you've bid/estimated.

Especially when reading a spec book for a designer you bid before... They will reuse everything possible.

Run a reverse Plagiarism program to call out where the Specs have changed from the last job(s)

Spend your time where the money goes: 15% overhead & profit, 30 % HVAC, 25 % Electrical, 10% floors , Etc.....

Understand and USE significant figures: Omitting 100 nails at 50 cents each won't break you, but leaving out a RTU heat pump at 30K$ might.

Double check the 'Big rocks' first.

Is it a Greenfield Job or wedged in triangular lot with NO lay down area?
Is Valet parking needed for the Subs?

Under stand the various mark-ups and layers of management costs on jobs with construction management layer added on to the G-C/ prime contractor(s)

If you are doing a "real building" can't you find out the Real answer with change orders, I.E. as built $ should equal Property Tax value...


Don't forget Regulatory Creep: this years work requires Silica Dust control spending....Sweeping the floor is mostly technically illegal now without special methods....

Use checklists. It is eating an Elephant, one fork full at time and 100,000 forkfuls....


Please have the Monitor(s) correct the spelling on the original Post Title.
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Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 02-05-2018 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:04 AM   #29
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Re: Builders Competition


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPG View Post
Judging by what we see on too many of the posts here, I think we all learned a lot of stuff in 7th grade that we've now forgotten.

But let's get back to bids and estimating. Spreadsheets, notes, lessons learned, and experience will all help you tune your bids to make them more accurate. If you've never done the work it can be hard to correctly estimate the time required. I doubt any of us here have a perfect record of estimating exactly what it takes to get every job done and still make a profit.
Have you guys ever heard of the pro vs DIY time estimation formula? You take how long you think a project should take, double it, then increase the unit of measure. So a one hour project will actually take two days to fully complete. A two day project will take four weekends, one weekend is two weeks, one week will be two months, etc. It's good for a laugh or a reality check when your neighbor takes on some home improvement project, but it's also a good reminder when taking on a task that we've never done before that chances are it will take longer the first time you do it.
I never used a spread sheet. If I bid on something I had a good idea how much the materials were and time involved and what I need to motivate me. I can see where it would help on some things though, each to their own.

I was talking about English though, grammar, spelling, sentence structure, etc., is like anything else. It falls to the wayside with disuse. We either care or we don't. Each to their own.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:07 PM   #30
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Re: Builders Competition


I completed a BS in Construction Management. It was the best thing I ever did for my career, and family. A lot of hard work and long nights, and if it was easy everyone would do it. My advice is to do the assignments the best you can, and that is the way you learn.

As for estimating, schools use Means. It is a reference baseline. Every contractor has their production numbers, and they donít use Means. The line items are very important.

Work hard in school and you will learn to succeed. There are no shortcuts when it comes to schoolwork here.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:45 PM   #31
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Re: Builders Competition


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I completed a BS in Construction Management. It was the best thing I ever did for my career, and family. A lot of hard work and long nights, and if it was easy everyone would do it. My advice is to do the assignments the best you can, and that is the way you learn.



As for estimating, schools use Means. It is a reference baseline. Every contractor has their production numbers, and they donít use Means. The line items are very important.



Work hard in school and you will learn to succeed. There are no shortcuts when it comes to schoolwork here.


School is great, I only got an associates myself, but I think that you need to wear bags and swing a hammer before taking the boss position. Sorry to get sidetracked but Iíve met some real dandy project managers that would have benefited from some OJT.


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Old 02-07-2018, 12:01 PM   #32
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Re: Builders Competition


I feel the same way about the on the job training. We have a club for construction managment majors so they can get ďexperienceĒ but the only people who show up to the projects are the ones who already have experience.
I have been working as a laborer/Carpenter since I was 16, so I like to think I understand what it means to be the lowest guy who gets the jobs no one else wants to do. I want to be the type of boss who wouldnít ask anyone to do anything I wouldnít do myself.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:06 PM   #33
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Re: Builders Competition


If people want to learn how to read and write they will. I thought that's what SCHOOL was all about. ????

I have little tolerance for pure laziness or lame excuses. Whether it comes from millennials or anyone else. I refuse to spoon-feed the new-age idiots.

Millennial (from Urban dictionary) :

Special little snowflake.

"Born between 1982 and 1994 this generation is something special, cause Mom and Dad and their 5th grade teacher Mrs. Winotsky told them so. Plus they have a whole shelf of participation trophies sitting at home so it has to be true.

They believe themselves to be highly intelligent, the teachers and lecturers constantly gave them "A"'s in order to keep Mom and Dad from complaining to the Dean. Unfortunately, nobody explained to them the difference between and education and grade inflation so they tend to demonstrate poor spelling and even poorer grammar.

At work, millennials believe themselves to be overachievers who just aren't understood by their loser bosses. Even Mom said so when she showed up for the interview. They are the only generation in the universe to understand the concept of work life balance and to actually want to find a fulfilling career. All those Gen X losers just don't get it what with hoping to keep their jobs and pay the bills but they are just corporate drone so who cares what they think? They should be smart like Millennials and get Mom and Dad to pay for that stuff until they can work out what they want to do with their lives and then get rich doing it.
Well, I've been here at this job for 6 months now and I've been on time mostly so I should get a raise now 'cause I've paid my dues.
Did you know we are the most technologically advanced generation, like eva? And smart too. They call us millennials cause we were born before the millennial I think."

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:04 AM   #34
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Re: Builders Competition


After the millennials massively fail, after getting kicked out their Mom's Basement when they pass, comes the New Dark Age...

Prince Charles of Great Britain was the first and still honorary "millennial".

Millennial's children will be tougher then leather, the few that survive the not so benign neglect....

I personally don't even learn a millennial's name at work till they last a month, few do.

Typical interchange years later with former millennial coworkers,M," Hey aren't you 4th gen," 4th" yea." M, "You were mean to me." 4th, "So, did you actually do any work?" M, "No." 4th," So, are you still worthless?"

many actually admit their former uselessness, some even their current lack of utility to the world.....
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:27 AM   #35
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Re: Builders Competition


Kirk and 4th gen, what generation do you guys fall into?


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Old 02-08-2018, 01:02 AM   #36
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Re: Builders Competition


The English usage of Josh's last two posts was certainly better than his first post. It seems all it took was some gentle (and some not so gentle) ribbing to get him to use the language better. That is progress in my book.

But my main point is to ask if someone would please, please for the love of God, fix the spelling of the thread title.

Competition...competition...competition.

Andy.
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:28 AM   #37
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Re: Builders Competition


The Report button (yellow flag) can be used to request the title change.

I have made such a report.
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:22 AM   #38
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Re: Builders Competition


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The English usage of Josh's last two posts was certainly better than his first post. It seems all it took was some gentle (and some not so gentle) ribbing to get him to use the language better. That is progress in my book.

But my main point is to ask if someone would please, please for the love of God, fix the spelling of the thread title.

Competition...competition...competition.

Andy.
His first post. Trade listed as "remolding". I still can't quite decide if he's into mold remediation, or running a molding machine, or.....
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:41 AM   #39
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Re: Builders Competition


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Kirk and 4th gen, what generation do you guys fall into?


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I'm 60, a baby-boomer. My dad is Italian, his Mom and Dad were immigrants (from Sicily), they learned English and got their US citizenship. Like most immigrants back then, they didn't take any government freebies because they were proud and responsible for themselves. My Dad had 5 brothers and 4 sisters and they all quit school early to go out to work to bring money in for food and clothing. Imagine that huh? They were all hard mofo workers, worked until the job was done, weekends etc. No whining either, in fact they had fun at work always cracking jokes, singing and razzing other workers. A fun bunch of Guido cigar smokers who made work fun. Work? Fun? Yeah, imagine that? Two of my Uncles ran a cement business and they worked thier azzes off. Then they started building homes. I jumped in for summer help while in high school. I eventually got into the trade, then later took a 2 year vocational education in Carpentry and Building. "Work hard, play hard" was the motto. I just followed their lead.

At 60, I can still work circles around millennials. I've watch them come to work late, go home early or they don't show up at all and have a million and one excuses on a rolodex (whats that?, lol). Most never work more than a month, if that. They play with their phones non-stop, take hour chits, and take a smoke break every hour or so. And they have a real knack for getting paid by doing the least amount of work. And whatever work they do is pizz-poor work. They spell like chit, talk like lil' wannabe gangsters, wear their hats like Gomer Pyle and walk around with their pants around their effing' knees, advertising like inmates just begging to be butt-rammed by Bubba. And that's the new "COOL?"

I guess what bugs me the most is their incessive whining and how they always find a way to get out of doing anything "above and beyond"..or helping another guy out when he needs a hand. And they don't care about doing anything in reference to real quality. Sloppy, lazy and undependable people with bad attitudes.

I'm not saying all are like that, but most. There's always a rare few young guys who impress the crap out me. But most often not.

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Old 02-08-2018, 02:46 PM   #40
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Re: Builders Competition


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I'm 60, a baby-boomer. My dad is Italian, his Mom and Dad were immigrants (from Sicily), they learned English and got their US citizenship. Like most immigrants back then, they didn't take any government freebies because they were proud and responsible for themselves. My Dad had 5 brothers and 4 sisters and they all quit school early to go out to work to bring money in for food and clothing. Imagine that huh? They were all hard mofo workers, worked until the job was done, weekends etc. No whining either, in fact they had fun at work always cracking jokes, singing and razzing other workers. A fun bunch of Guido cigar smokers who made work fun. Work? Fun? Yeah, imagine that? Two of my Uncles ran a cement business and they worked thier azzes off. Then they started building homes. I jumped in for summer help while in high school. I eventually got into the trade, then later took a 2 year vocational education in Carpentry and Building. "Work hard, play hard" was the motto. I just followed their lead.

At 60, I can still work circles around millennials. I've watch them come to work late, go home early or they don't show up at all and have a million and one excuses on a rolodex (whats that?, lol). Most never work more than a month, if that. They play with their phones non-stop, take hour chits, and take a smoke break every hour or so. And they have a real knack for getting paid by doing the least amount of work. And whatever work they do is pizz-poor work. They spell like chit, talk like lil' wannabe gangsters, wear their hats like Gomer Pyle and walk around with their pants around their effing' knees, advertising like inmates just begging to be butt-rammed by Bubba. And that's the new "COOL?"

I guess what bugs me the most is their incessive whining and how they always find a way to get out of doing anything "above and beyond"..or helping another guy out when he needs a hand. And they don't care about doing anything in reference to real quality. Sloppy, lazy and undependable people with bad attitudes.

I'm not saying all are like that, but most. There's always a rare few young guys who impress the crap out me. But most often not.


There are a bunch of broke di... my age but some of us get chit done. I was born in 1989. I went to war. Iím a homeowner and an employer, so I pay taxes. I also vote republican.

I donít see it too bad in the trades, especially with smaller companies. If someone canít hack it they get let go.


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