Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs..... - General Discussion - Contractor Talk

Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:26 PM   #1
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Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


There is an exactly zero percent chance that I will ever be involved in something like this, so this is purely an academic question.

For very large jobs, say a multi-year highrise job, how do you get a bid, for say, electrical rough or drywall, when it might be 2 or more years before that trade is ever brought on site?

What's the standard? Allowance, change order?

Or does that just get bid when it's time to perform that portion?

And how do you nail down a number on a multi-year project?
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:53 PM   #2
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


I was told that nowadays they know exactly how much material goes into the building when they go to bid it. Basically the plans already had the material specs on it which would help a little bit.....I guess

Your question absolutely amazes me as well especially looking at buildings in Chicago where all the material has to be delivered on demand because there is absolutely no place to store anything. As soon as the truck pulls up the crane grabs whatever it has and pulls it up.

Or I look at expanding the toll road here, it just baffles me on how they can calculate how much material and the logistics of it.


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Old 12-12-2018, 10:00 PM   #3
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


subs will put the gc under an electron microscope if they do not know him or he has no established reputation.

subs, if they bid, will factor in a delayed response time allowing for adjustment of schedules, mobilization, wages, materials, over head etc...

often there are multipliers in the bid documents that allow for a lengthly process.

on a job the size you are describing usually only established companies are invited to bid.

on an open bid, the bid documents are thoroughly scrutinized before award.

local hospital?
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:00 PM   #4
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


Maybe Griz or ElementBuilders knows?
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:02 PM   #5
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


I've bid some pretty big projects and there isn't always much detail(or the details are there but totally wrong). It's almost always a proposal with a scope of work and a fixed cost. Maybe a couple alternates or options in the proposal. Our scope is early on in the project but it's still been over a year between contract and commencement in a number of cases. You just need to try and anticipate cost increases and hope for the best.

Change orders are pretty common but the GC is typically going to try and get you to eat them, especially if they can't get compensated by the customer.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:07 PM   #6
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


I type too slow.


No project in particular, just wondered about it for a long time.

We did have a huge hospital remodel a few years back, that lasted probably 7 years. I knew the IOR on that job.


Can subs issue a change order for unexpected material costs? I remember a few years back when copper was super volatile price-wise. Might double overnight. How would a sub plan for that?
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:11 PM   #7
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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I type too slow.


No project in particular, just wondered about it for a long time.

We did have a huge hospital remodel a few years back, that lasted probably 7 years. I knew the IOR on that job.


Can subs issue a change order for unexpected material costs? I remember a few years back when copper was super volatile price-wise. Might double overnight. How would a sub plan for that?
subs issue a C/O...yes, usually covered by escalator clauses.

OSHPD IOR, Fenton?
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:56 AM   #8
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
I type too slow.


No project in particular, just wondered about it for a long time.

We did have a huge hospital remodel a few years back, that lasted probably 7 years. I knew the IOR on that job.


Can subs issue a change order for unexpected material costs? I remember a few years back when copper was super volatile price-wise. Might double overnight. How would a sub plan for that?
My electrician has a wire surcharge column that is unspecified until the job is invoiced.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:32 AM   #9
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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subs issue a C/O...yes, usually covered by escalator clauses.

OSHPD IOR, Fenton?
Yep he was OSHPD.

Wasn't Fenton.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:47 AM   #10
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


We did lots of large jobs that took a year or more. No different than a small job. You take your subcontractors quotes with everyone knowing the expected job duration and subs have to build whatever is necessarily into their bids to be ready to perform when it's ready for them.

Smart GC's will only use reputable subs and will lock them in with a rock solid signed subcontract.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:21 PM   #11
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


Just for giggles, imagine a lot of our jobs. There's a delegated design clause that basically puts us on the hook for making the structural engineering work. There's a design and an engineer, but if the sizes or layout don't work, we're supposed to make up the shortfall. That's fun.
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:07 PM   #12
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


head hurt just reading the title of this post so much time lol
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:15 PM   #13
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


increase the multiplier.... use percentage to your advantage....
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:24 PM   #14
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


On many big jobs the GC's and many subs have the resources to buy major materials/equipment/components when they receive the award and notice to proceed.
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:22 PM   #15
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


I guess, I'll state it again... increase the multiplier and use percentage to your advantage. Look, there is a reason you are not bidding on high rises... if it was easy money, you wouldn't have to post the question... I'm not trying to make light of your question, it's just that sometimes, you either need to put in the time. Or you need to reinvent the wheel. whichever gets you there first.....
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:53 AM   #16
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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I guess, I'll state it again... increase the multiplier and use percentage to your advantage. Look, there is a reason you are not bidding on high rises... if it was easy money, you wouldn't have to post the question... I'm not trying to make light of your question, it's just that sometimes, you either need to put in the time. Or you need to reinvent the wheel. whichever gets you there first.....
Go file a lawsuit against your 3rd grade teacher, because she obviously failed you.

Then go beg some one to teach you reading comprehension.

I don't build high rises because I haven't a fuxxing clue how, wouldn't want to if I did, and there aren't any high rises for almost 400 miles in any direction from where I am. And I imagine it would get tricky trying to do those as a one-man-show.


This is a very interesting forum, where Contractors from many facets of the building industry come to post, and I take advantage of that fact by learning about things that interest me, that I'll NEVER partake in.

So before you come into a place and shoot your fuxxing mouth off and look like an asshole, figure out what in the blue fuxx is going on first.
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:55 AM   #17
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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On many big jobs the GC's and many subs have the resources to buy major materials/equipment/components when they receive the award and notice to proceed.
I always wondered if futures on materials are bought for really big projects.
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:47 AM   #18
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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I always wondered if futures on materials are bought for really big projects.
generally hard money, material in possession...

to my knowledge not like the commodity markets.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:55 PM   #19
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


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I always wondered if futures on materials are bought for really big projects.
We can sometimes get suppliers to lock in a price for a set window of time once we get a letter of intent. Typically only on the less volatile materials.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:03 AM   #20
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Re: Bidding Really, REALLY Big Jobs.....


To add to this, there is a factor for material increases as well. The PSC Project I completed came in just a shade over 3 mil, and the last phase, we paid an increase of 30% or so on structural steel. Unexpected, but nothing else went up...

I know a few estimators for the larger GCs, and they all use a fudge factor....that over number is the allowance for most unseen issues.

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