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Between A Rock And Hard Place

 
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:50 AM   #21
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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Originally Posted by Leo G
Give him the rest of the year off. Tell him on Jan 2nd (or whenever) you expect him to be there on time and do that for the rest of your employment. Of course you'll give him the benefit of the doubt when he calls in before he should show and has a valid excuse one or two times. But after that just let him go.

It might be a good idea to have him sign a pc of paper saying that he has received this warning and then 3 strikes your outta here. That way if you have problems with the state you can show that you went through the proper procedure with the warnings.
I was thinking the same thing about putting something in writing with dates so my butt is covered...as of now he's all done until further notice
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:23 AM   #22
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


Double , super secret probation? Showing your age, Stephan.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:23 AM   #23
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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Originally Posted by 413Sean
My buddy and I have been working together for who knows how many years. He had his own gig I would help him when he needed me. Well he basically came to work with me fulltime about 6 years ago. Within the past year there has been numerous no shows no calls and he's late all the time. There has been several " warnings" about his future with me. I'm just looking for any nice ways to go about this without firing him, give him another shot? Last Friday was my final straw he txt me around 11 that he "just woke up"
I've been in this situation more times than I care to admit. The one thing I realized is that these kind of people don't care how your business is effected. So why do you carry their burdens? Everyone here who's stated that cutting him loose will improve your business is 100% correct. It's stressful to have to put up with that kind of behavior, and unnecessary as well.
These type of people never change. They feel as though they are victims. So they carry on through life perpetuating that idea. Let him go. He'll find employment with someone who he doesn't have a personal friendship with. That person will not tolerate his BS an he'll be forced to grow up. Good luck.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:11 AM   #24
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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My buddy and I have been working together for who knows how many years. He had his own gig I would help him when he needed me. Well he basically came to work with me fulltime about 6 years ago. Within the past year there has been numerous no shows no calls and he's late all the time. There has been several " warnings" about his future with me. I'm just looking for any nice ways to go about this without firing him, give him another shot? Last Friday was my final straw he txt me around 11 that he "just woke up"
Do you know what is his problem? Does he drink too much? Sit down and talk to him and find out how you can help him.

If he refuses your help and his actions threathen your livelyhood, then you may have no other choice than to let him go. Explain to him that if he doesn't do his job, he hurts you ability to earn a living and that your concerns are nothing personal.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:14 AM   #25
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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I hired my best friend once. 3 months later fired him. We didn't talk for a few months but we got over that.
As a rule of thumb, don't hire your friends to work for you.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:36 AM   #26
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


Your employee is getting in the way of your future? What's the question here?

Your so called friend is potentially screwing up your future and you don't know what to do? That's not a friend.

Fire him effective immediately and tell him to get help.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:21 AM   #27
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


Offer him a ride to work.....then take him to rehab.

If he gets out and completes rehab...take him back, if not let him know it's just business. Stay friends and build your business.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:34 PM   #28
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


I follow the method of a friend that goes through a lot of employees. A late start gets that day off. Another late start gets two days off. They don't like the short check.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:01 PM   #29
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


He doesn't want to work for you any more and he wants you to be the bad guy and fire him. Or, he's a drunk or a crackhead and you need to fire him before he takes you and your business down with him. Take your pick.

Of course, maybe he really needs your help. Fire him first, to get the business complication out of the way, then offer to help him as a friend.

Last edited by CarpenterSFO; 12-16-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #30
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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Sean,-I can't believe we are even discussing this.

this is a problem which has gone on for years,correct?
You solved it last winter when you fired him.

Then you "un-solved" it by re-hiring him a few months later?

Logically we can assume you had some sort of "get control of your life, buddy, and straighten yourself out" sort of talk before you re-hired him---------

and yet here you are with the same problem again?

You have done MORE than enough and for way too long.
enough with the "double,super secret probation" and the extended interventions etc.

Cut him loose, NEVER re-hire him, and move on.
It's time.

BTW- I know it will be tough to do it- but once you grow the stones to do it, I am willing to bet your life and your business improve in ways you never anticipated because FINALLY you will be acting instead of "Re-acting" and that will benefit your life in so many ways.....
Best wishes,
stephen
Sean,

It is time to grow up and wear the big boy pants. Part of growing up is showing up to work on time. You will ruin yourself if you try to protect friends who refuse to act like adults.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:56 AM   #31
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


In a land far far away and a time long long ago I was that guy. I was like 19 or 20. Working for my cousin as a delivery driver he canned my AZZ like it was nothing. Best thing he did for me.

CUT HIM LOOSE.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:13 AM   #32
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


I wouldn't even give it a second thought, he would be gone. Why are you letting him take advantage of you? Is he an alcoholic? If you want to help him, get rid of him.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:19 AM   #33
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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Bingo its a combination of the bottle and other stuff
Just saw this. So you're working around his schedule and hangovers then paying him so he can keep getting drunk?
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:26 AM   #34
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


This is sad when this happens
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:37 AM   #35
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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In a land far far away and a time long long ago I was that guy. I was like 19 or 20. Working for my cousin as a delivery driver he canned my AZZ like it was nothing. Best thing he did for me.

CUT HIM LOOSE.
Hardy Working,

Thanks for showing us that this method does work. It is clear that hiring friends and relatives is not a good idea.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:16 PM   #36
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


if its a health related problem ... send him to the doctor

if its anything else ... cut him loose and don't take him back

I went thru this with a worker. Who knows why I kept him for as long as I did ... let him go, brought him back on board when he cleaned up his act, etc. I finally hit FINAL ... my business operates much better these days. He was a good guy with a good heart. But, working was not number one priority and my having to scramble because of his no show was of little concern to him as his Azz was not on the line. I check in with one of his friends once in awhile to see how he's doing ... but I will not be bringing him back on board.

Bringing someone back on board who is a problem or has self inflicted problems is 'reinforced behavior'. He knows you will be pissed, you'll let him go, he'll clean up his act, you'll hire him back, he'll get comfortable ... and the whole process will start all over again. Guaranteed.

Bernie

Last edited by bernie; 12-17-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:18 PM   #37
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


Since then I show up 15 minutes early instead of 2 hours late. I don't call in when I'm hungover I power through it. 4-5 beers can do it for me now days. I was young and dumb. I knew what a good work ethic was I just forgot. At 48 I look at things differently now.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:58 PM   #38
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


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Originally Posted by KennMacMoragh

Just saw this. So you're working around his schedule and hangovers then paying him so he can keep getting drunk?
Basically yes I was but not anymore, now I need to find a replacement and put this on the past
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:09 AM   #39
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


I've had good and bad luck hiring friends and relatives. I had a relative today work for me for the first time, didn't work so good. I marked where he needed to dig some holes in the dirt, outlined it with my cats paw showing him where to dig. When I left to get materials and came back, sure enough he was about 8 inches off from where I had made the mark. When I tried to explain what he did wrong and how to fix it, he told me he dug where I had marked it, then he threw down his tools and said "You can finish, you don't have to pay me", and walked away. Then he kept telling me I was wasting time telling him to pull nails out of the boards before throwing them on the ground.

On the upside, I have another relative who's been working for me that does good. He takes criticism well, works hard, learns fairly quick for a beginner. I also have a friend of mine who's worked for me once, he does good as well, works hard, learns fast, good attitude. I am going to use him again on my next large job that I have.

Point being, some friends and relatives can work out good, some wont. Just like hiring someone you don't know. Some people work out fine, some don't. Not everyone is cut out to work construction, as you guys probably already know. I think it's fine to hire a friend or relative, just be prepared if it doesn't work out, let him off fast and easy, and say "thanks for the help". You don't want to keep wasting time with someone who isn't cutting it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:18 AM   #40
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Re: Between A Rock And Hard Place


Quote:
Originally Posted by KennMacMoragh
I've had good and bad luck hiring friends and relatives. I had a relative today work for me for the first time, didn't work so good. I marked where he needed to dig some holes in the dirt, outlined it with my cats paw showing him where to dig. When I left to get materials and came back, sure enough he was about 8 inches off from where I had made the mark. When I tried to explain what he did wrong and how to fix it, he told me he dug where I had marked it, then he threw down his tools and said "You can finish, you don't have to pay me", and walked away. Then he kept telling me I was wasting time telling him to pull nails out of the boards before throwing them on the ground.

On the upside, I have another relative who's been working for me that does good. He takes criticism well, works hard, learns fairly quick for a beginner. I also have a friend of mine who's worked for me once, he does good as well, works hard, learns fast, good attitude. I am going to use him again on my next large job that I have.

Point being, some friends and relatives can work out good, some wont. Just like hiring someone you don't know. Some people work out fine, some don't. Not everyone is cut out to work construction, as you guys probably already know. I think it's fine to hire a friend or relative, just be prepared if it doesn't work out, let him off fast and easy, and say "thanks for the help". You don't want to keep wasting time with someone who isn't cutting it.
Problem with that Kenn is hard feelings can follow you to the thanksgiving dinner, when the whole family gets together. I just don't hire relatives, friends are not a problem for me but relatives

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