Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed - General Discussion - Contractor Talk

Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed

 
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:42 PM   #1
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Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


Hello,

I inherited a rental property house from my dad when he died 2 years ago. He was not the builder, he was just the lender on this deal.

Well, the borrower BK'd and the house was foreclosed on by my dad, who died a few months later.

So now, I have this house. It's in southern utah, and it has a basement. It isn't a very wet area, but the basement concrete work was done all wrong!

Basically, what happened was that the borrower was trying to build it himself, and essentially poured the basement floor as a monolithic slab, and then poured the walls on top of it. He didn't really know what he was doing, and nothing was done properly. What this left us with was a gap between the walls and floor, where I presume the water seeps in through.

Well, the house flooded pretty bad right before we ever got a tenant in there. It was empty for a while, and it's an hour away so I wasn't there much. After a bad rain storm, we learned that the window wells were letting a tremendous amount of water in and that the grading and draining for the yard all lead inwards to the house and the window wells.

In order to fix this house (which was totally finished and landscaped), I raised the window wells, poured a concrete skirt around the entire house draining away, and re graded the entire yard and added a new lawn with a good grade all draining away from the house. I also extended all the rain gutters out onto the lawn. It would appear that there is no way water could get up to the house and flood it again. It doesn't flow into the window wells, and there's the concrete skirt all around the house to keep water away from the concrete basement wall.

We went all of 2009 without any water seepage. But, last month, lo and behold the area in the basement that had flooded was wet again! It just seeps out under the baseboard in the corner of the house, nowhere near a window well.


So, now I have tenants there, and it's leaking again, and I have done everything I can think of from the ground level. Now, I am faced with moving to a more drastic solution. The way I see it, I will have to dig out the yard and tear out the concrete, and put some sort of Visqueen barrier around the footing and way, and then install a french drain system and sump pump to pump the water out before it gets into the house?

Or, do I bypass the excavation of the outside, and just cut the concrete and wall from inside and install a sump pump from within the house? There is no floor drain or basin in the basement, and the pump for the toilet and tub is some 20-30 feet away and through 3 walls.

I have included a picture of the house from the ground level, and some diagrams of my problem I made. I do not want to have to excavate the entire outside corner of the house and basement, but I will if I have to. But if anyone here can see an easier option, maybe one that doesn't involve a backhoe, I'd love to hear the idea.


Also, some random answers to possible questions:
- The original builder is long gone, he skipped town. I don't have any plans or anything from the house.
- I have no idea how it passed any inspections like this. Loose standards in Rural Utah perhaps?
- This only happens after a heavy rain/snow. We do not suspect natural groundwater or a plumbing problem.
- I already spent some $15,000 dollars on the lawn and concrete skirt work after the first attempt to divert water away to prevent this.
- There is no evidence of any water coming in from anywhere but beneath the baseboards in the drawings I have attached, "point A"


If anyone has any ideas on these, I sure could use them.
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Basement footings/walls poured wrong, now basement leaks, no sump installed-house.jpg   Basement footings/walls poured wrong, now basement leaks, no sump installed-screen-shot-2010-04-29-4.38.57-pm.png   Basement footings/walls poured wrong, now basement leaks, no sump installed-screen-shot-2010-04-29-4.39.06-pm.png  
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:45 PM   #2
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


I have one option but, you would be tearing some stuff up in the basement.

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Old 04-29-2010, 06:41 PM   #3
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


My opinion is that the last diagram in your post is the problem....the soil becomes so saturated and the easiest route for the water is between the slab and the walls....

The window wells may contribute to the problem, but I think you need to address the details involving the walls sitting on the slab.....
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:00 PM   #4
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


There is a device that water remediation companies use that is like an x-ray. You could always get them to come out and see if it would give you an indication of where water is coming from. Did you caulk the joint between the house and the skirt? Control joints in skirt.

Man waterstop added at construction is cheap and would have kept the water out. You could always just tear out the corner portion of the skirt and put a french drain and pump in there to see if that helps instead of doing whole house. Water will follow the path of least resistence.
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:45 PM   #5
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


any way to know if the floor has a footing around the perimeter ?
it would be a lot of work but seems like you need a normal type footing drain and a lot of clean stone to back fill with at the bottom. that should keep the water from coming up over the slab level and entering that crack.

if it's all finished inside, the best way is from the outside. would have to lose the skirt though.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:17 PM   #6
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


You mite try a seton drain 4' deep 16" wide around the house with 3/4 stone 4" pipe to day lite( If possible ).
The property looks flat and the water just seeps to the footing and leaks in .

You mite jack hammer the floor out 6" from the walls and 12" wide inside and dig 12" down then add gravel and pipe and fill with 2" of cement .
Add a sump pump pit in the wet corner .

how about digging all around the house to below the footings .
Power wash the walls and add foundation coat ( 2 coats).
Add 4" pipe and 3/4 stone for footing drain with filter cloth and back fill .
try to grade the water away from the house .

I would bite the bullet and and run with option # 3 there is no easy way to water proof a foundation .
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:44 AM   #7
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


Quote:
Originally Posted by wellbuilthome View Post
You mite try a seton drain 4' deep 16" wide around the house with 3/4 stone 4" pipe to day lite( If possible ).
The property looks flat and the water just seeps to the footing and leaks in .

You mite jack hammer the floor out 6" from the walls and 12" wide inside and dig 12" down then add gravel and pipe and fill with 2" of cement .
Add a sump pump pit in the wet corner .

how about digging all around the house to below the footings .
Power wash the walls and add foundation coat ( 2 coats).
Add 4" pipe and 3/4 stone for footing drain with filter cloth and back fill .
try to grade the water away from the house .

I would bite the bullet and and run with option # 3 there is no easy way to water proof a foundation .
really can't jackhammer a monolithic pour since the slab and footing are all in one. I think that's asking for trouble later on. I'd go with option 3 too. but I'd be using a professional to come in and waterproof that wall if you are going to go through the trouble of digging it all up.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:20 AM   #8
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


I dont know alot about this kind of thing but IMO i would either cut the floor, dig out a pit and install a pump or dig up the outside of the foundation and pour a new footing on the outside of the floor/foundation wall so they are tied together and watertight. I would also install crushed rock and proper drainage too. Wouldnt hurt to seal the foundation while its open. Of course i would have chosen to do this before doing any grading/finish work was done.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:59 AM   #9
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


That floor to wall detail is very poor on the "contractors" part. That will be a constant problem forever if not adressed from the exterior correctly. As mentioned above, if ribbed "water-stop" had been placed in the floor/footing right away, you likely wouldn't be havign these issues. Unfortunatly, theres no way to retro-fit it in now.

I can think of only 2 ways to really fix this situation permanently:

1) Demo the entire interior of the basement, raise all mechanicals, install 4"+ clear 1" stone tied into a sump crock, lay vapor barrier, pour new floor. Obviously, this entales alot of work & remodeling I assume, as well as the 8" loss of headroom is less than ideal.

2) Excavate the entire exterior of the house, power wash walls, install an adhered membrane (Grace & WR Meadows are 2 of many manu's), wrapping it over the footing (at least 8" below bsmnt. floor level) & extending it above grade. Install and inch or 2 of stone in the trench followed by a 3" or 4" perferated draintile continuous, covered by 18" minimum 1" clear stone. Install filter fabric over stone & backfill with soil to grade. The draintile needs to either drain to grade (if at all possible) or be tied to a sump crock. An interior sump crock is ideal IMO, but may be harder to install with your situation. I've heard of exterior sump crocks, but have never seen one do to our climate I guess.

One more thing, if that's EIFS or plaster on the house, MAKE SURE you find a GREAT excavator to do the digging.

Last edited by jomama; 05-04-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:48 PM   #10
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


This is a no brainer ,but did you cover the window wells to see if that stops the leak?I have never used it but they make a plastic channel that can be glued around the inside bottom perimeter of the basement walls catching the water seeping under the walls and channeling it to a barrel and pump.Probably not the best solution but maybe the most economical.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:20 PM   #11
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


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really can't jackhammer a monolithic pour since the slab and footing are all in one. I think that's asking for trouble later on. I'd go with option 3 too. but I'd be using a professional to come in and waterproof that wall if you are going to go through the trouble of digging it all up.

I jack hammer the floor most of the time even if there is steal rod .
I mite cut the wall side if there is alot of steal but a thin hammer bit will chip the concrete away from the steal with out damiging the footing , like the guys rebuilding bridges just jack between the bars .
Most guys jack the floor so the new concrete can bond with the rough edge of the existing Crete .
Ive used Tuff and Dry foundation coating a few times but with a good footing drain two day lite and 2 coats of foundation coat I think the basement would be dry . I do alot of foundations and have never had a leaker with foundation coat .
Pouring walls on top of the floor is just silly . John
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:04 AM   #12
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Re: Basement Footings/walls Poured Wrong, Now Basement Leaks, No Sump Installed


The foundation was over-dug. The floor elevation is to deep and that is why water penetrating your basement, not to mention if the guy didn't know what he was doing, the perimeter drainage probably wasn't done properly, if it exists at all ,etc.

With that said, as long as there is moisture in the ground, the unprotected concrete foundation will absorb, store, and transfer water into the basement. Water will find large or small cracks and in the foundation wall and drive the water inward due to hydrostatic pressure. Ground water or moisture will move into the porous, vapor permeable concrete through the foundation wall and floor slab by capillary action. In other words, think of your basement being a underground swimming pool without a lining.

Installing an exterior drainage system in existing building is the most costly but also the most effective water drainage system... In your case, if you dig around, you still might have a problem if the slab prep wasn't done right. If there is no stone under the slab, then you don't have a capillary break between the soil and the underside of the concrete slab and you will still have a problem. This why building codes require the installation of a vapor barrier under the slab, to prevent water vapor from entering into the basement through the slab.

IMO opinion would be the best way to do this on the existing building, is to cut the slab along foundation perimeter, put stone and perforated pipe bellow the top of the footing and tie the drainage system into a sump-pump and get the water out to daylight.

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Last edited by greg24k; 09-20-2012 at 06:07 AM.
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