Bad Foundation - Page 9 - General Discussion - Contractor Talk

Bad Foundation

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-23-2017, 11:52 AM   #161
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mid west
Posts: 2,022
Rewards Points: 7,251

Re: Bad Foundation


IMHO not ever qualifying for a FHA loan or not meeting IBC 2009 minimum standards is a BIG DEAL.

WHERE is the local Inspector official?

Call an honest realtor/ loan officer and ask would they sell this foundation as Average or better? and would disclosure be required under federal and state Real Estate laws?

No city wants to known as the home of the busted foundations...

Want fast action, whisper "class action" law suite.......Ask to see the last ten basements team Booty built....

Some fool paid for the leaning tower of Pisa too.

Again the photo of the footing crack(itself a deal stopper) shows that most likely the spread footing were mostly dug and overdug? by the a machine( did the smooth operator switch to a toothless bucket?) Were the footings allowed to fill with ground water prior to pouring the footers, destroying most of sideways resistance?

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 11-23-2017 at 12:16 PM.
Fouthgeneration is online now  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 11-23-2017, 12:10 PM   #162
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 13,844
Rewards Points: 3,132

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
IMHO not ever qualifying for a FHA loan..........
https://www.fhanewsblog.com/2011/06/...-and-basement/

When it comes to the standards for foundations and basements, the FHA has a clear set of guidelines. To begin with, the foundation must be constructed to properly support the home. “All foundations must be adequate to withstand all normal loads imposed.” That’s according to the FHA official site, which also adds, “Stone and brick foundations are acceptable if they are in good condition.”

Basements and foundations with “any noticeable crack” must be addressed. Cracks may indicate the presence of problems with the foundation or other equally important issues that may require further attention before the home can be purchased.
__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
Old 11-23-2017, 12:23 PM   #163
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 13,844
Rewards Points: 3,132

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
IMHO not ever qualifying for a FHA loan or not meeting IBC 2009 minimum standards is a BIG DEAL.

WHERE is the local Inspector official?

Call an honest realtor/ loan officer and ask would they sell this foundation as Average or better? and would disclosure be required under federal and state Real Estate laws?

No city wants to known as the home of the busted foundations...

Want fast action, whisper "class action" law suite.......Ask to see the last ten basements team Booty built....

Some fool paid for the leaning tower of Pisa too.

Again the photo of the footing crack(itself a deal stopper) shows that most likely the spread footing were mostly dug and overdug? by the a machine( did the smooth operator switch to a toothless bucket?) Were the footings allowed to fill with ground water prior to pouring the footers, destroying most of sideways resistance?
The OP has not stated where the build is being done. How would you then know what codes are currently in force?

The "building inspector" is going to inspect what he sees. He can well make note of an issue and request additional info regarding repairs.

You say "city", yet what is shown in the photos are houses being built within a large and fallow farm field.

You jump to conclusions that somehow one foundation damaged by heavy equipment constitutes proof that the builder is somehow guilty of something.

All you are doing is sensationalizing something that no one here on this forum can make any definitive statements on, except this:

Cracked foundations can be repaired and pass every inspection, FHA, local code and national code.
__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SmallTownGuy For This Useful Post:
Big Johnson (11-23-2017), slowsol (11-23-2017), tgeb (11-23-2017)
   
 
Old 11-23-2017, 01:22 PM   #164
Pro
 
rrk's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: new jersey
Posts: 5,128
Rewards Points: 158

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
No city wants to known as the home of the busted foundations...

Want fast action, whisper "class action" law suite.......Ask to see the last ten basements team Booty built....
Why would the city care?

Even if you screamed "class action" do you have any idea what it takes to proceed on a class action lawsuit ? or the cost ?

The builder will not let you see any other basements and may not even let you see yours.

Once a contract is signed some major builders do not even permit you to be on the property you bought without permission until the closing. I had a customer who saw that his garage floor was damaged to to a heavy rain soon after pouring the concrete, he also mentions lawsuit and they ask him if he want to cancel contract. According to his contract he would have to pay something like $100k to cancel it. He kept the crappy floor.
rrk is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to rrk For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (11-23-2017)
Old 11-23-2017, 01:26 PM   #165
Pro
 
Big Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor and Grunt
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,952
Rewards Points: 344

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
The OP has not stated where the build is being done. How would you then know what codes are currently in force?

The "building inspector" is going to inspect what he sees. He can well make note of an issue and request additional info regarding repairs.

You say "city", yet what is shown in the photos are houses being built within a large and fallow farm field.

You jump to conclusions that somehow one foundation damaged by heavy equipment constitutes proof that the builder is somehow guilty of something.

All you are doing is sensationalizing something that no one here on this forum can make any definitive statements on, except this:

Cracked foundations can be repaired and pass every inspection, FHA, local code and national code.
If fha won’t finance a cracked foundation they might as well close up shop. The FHA that is.
Big Johnson is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Big Johnson For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (11-23-2017)
Old 11-23-2017, 03:06 PM   #166
Pro
 
B.Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,063
Rewards Points: 1,638

Re: Bad Foundation


I learned a new word today. "Fallow"

Other than that not much to gain from this thread.
__________________
Home Designer Series Software
B.Johnson is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to B.Johnson For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (11-24-2017)
Old 11-23-2017, 09:21 PM   #167
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mid west
Posts: 2,022
Rewards Points: 7,251

Re: Bad Foundation


Big Johnson @ post #165: Above, House #s of 79xx imply a town-City of at least 79 blocks(5.5miles @ 13 blocks a mile) in one dimension.... note Kerbs, not used much in rural subdivisions......

The main idea behind Building codes/permits is to ensure a large flow of property Tax revenue based on easily sold(qualified for federal reinsurance mortgages) real estate.....

You want to live under a blue tarp, move to Haiti or Islamic paradise on Earth.

Most state define 'city' as over ten thousand people... the sociologists say 100,000 to 3,000,000 people.... City, town, village, comply or fight city/town hall....

He is guilty of failing to repair a BROKEN wall that makes the house that will sit on it much harder to sell FOREVER.....

Would you let him leave a broken rim joist or truss in place with just straightening it without replacing the damaged material?

It is possible this is the first time the GC has decided to do something on the very cheesy side of moral business acts, but I doubt it, see faux expert claims, and shoddy excavation practices.

GC's thought balloon,"Gee, if I repair this broken wall, I'll be on the hook for every busted wall I ever peddled....."

How can the broken wall be repaired without added footings, concrete walls and galvanized steel elements, outside the basement? (ANY concrete inside the basement lowers the value of the space(s).....

How DO you fix a broken footer.......

The continuous cracks also weakened the Two adjacent walls considerably.

Pretending this type of substandard construction is worthy of a Home loan guaranteed by US the USA's taxpayers nauseates me.

No incorporated whatever wants its tax revenue based on some fly-by-Nite builders shack attacks.... That is why Building codes exist...

Class Action law suits SAVE $ money by reducing duplicate court actions....

Stupid people sign outrageous contracts= More fools born all the time..... Any contract that is doing something illegal is automatically ended in US civil law....

STG: Most towns with 79 block long streets have codes... I.e. who numbered the houses......?????

Where I live almost every city is SURROUNDED by fields...so what?

Any basement with cracks REQUIRES a pro to sign off the foundations suitability for its use, and makes the room unusable(non-conforming) as a basement bedroom.....FHA rules

An old stone, and lime sand mortar foundation would have been in a pile under the dirt and the maroon running the skidder/cat.

Doing a homeowner out of Tens of thousands of dollars because one hired a fool to back fill a very fragile basement isn't defense-able IMHO.

GCs to cheap/stupid to pay the excavator to come back several times to gradually back fill deserve to be punished for their massive economic/professional ignorance.
Fouthgeneration is online now  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:08 AM   #168
Pro
 
B.Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,063
Rewards Points: 1,638

Re: Bad Foundation


__________________
Home Designer Series Software
B.Johnson is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to B.Johnson For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (11-24-2017), SmallTownGuy (11-24-2017)
Old 11-24-2017, 09:31 AM   #169
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 13,844
Rewards Points: 3,132

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Johnson View Post
I learned a new word today. "Fallow"

Other than that not much to gain from this thread.
rhymes with "callow".

There ya go a 2-fer!
__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:56 AM   #170
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 13,844
Rewards Points: 3,132

Re: Bad Foundation


The word "callow" used in a sentence, phrase or verse.

The Brothers Four did perhaps the rendition with the most air time & charted in 1965.

Every singer with a rep covered the tune - people loved it.

__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to SmallTownGuy For This Useful Post:
fjn (11-24-2017)
Old 11-24-2017, 07:07 PM   #171
Pro
 
B.Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,063
Rewards Points: 1,638

Re: Bad Foundation


Sorry, but my hearing isn't good enough to make out the word callow. I googled the lyrics and all I can say is that it's not a good song for the hard of hearing as every other line ends in ...llow
__________________
Home Designer Series Software
B.Johnson is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to B.Johnson For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (11-24-2017)
Old 11-24-2017, 07:15 PM   #172
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 13,844
Rewards Points: 3,132

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Johnson View Post
Sorry, but my hearing isn't good enough to make out the word callow. I googled the lyrics and all I can say is that it's not a good song for the hard of hearing as every other line ends in ...llow
I'm deef too. But I'm not going to ??llow in my self-pity.

hah !!!
__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SmallTownGuy For This Useful Post:
B.Johnson (11-24-2017), jlhaslip (11-27-2017)
Old 11-26-2017, 11:22 PM   #173
Pro
 
Kumpel's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 28

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Johnson View Post
Sorry, but my hearing isn't good enough to make out the word callow. I googled the lyrics and all I can say is that it's not a good song for the hard of hearing as every other line ends in ...llow
I'm deef too. But I'm not going to ??llow in my self-pity.

hah !!!
Lol!
Kumpel is offline  
Old 11-27-2017, 04:31 AM   #174
Sure, I can do that...
 
jlhaslip's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry/renovations
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,893
Rewards Points: 196

Re: Bad Foundation


I'm chiming in late, as usual, but here is my story which involves a similar situation that happened back in the good old days before all of your epoxy injection stuff was available.

D4 crashed into a 30 ft wall. 8 ft height, and 8 inch thick, much like this one. The dent moved the top of the wall about 3 inches as measured after the removal of all the dirt and the machine. Footing was deemed okay, and the repair proceeded as follows under supervision of a Structural Engineer and the AHJ.

* Chisel out the cracks to open them up to about 2 inches wide on the faces (both inside and outside)to ensure there were no "loose concrete chunks" around the cracks and create a good bonding surface for step 2
* Repair the cracks using Hydraulic cement to pack the cracks.
* Re form and re pour the wall as a 12 inch wall ensuring that the inner and outer walls were plumb and straight. If I recall correctly, a different concrete mix was used with small aggregate and a more plastic mix so it would feather out into the new forming.

One advantage this project has was a wide footing than normal for an 8 inch wall because the basement was for a Log home, so it had to carry a different load than was normally found in a stick framed house. That allowed for the additional 4 inch width of the wall.

The Cat Skinner's insurance covered the additional costs, the Engineer and Inspectors were happy, the Home owner lost very little space in the basement and we picked up some extra work.
The Cat Skinner was also the buddy of the homeowner, so it didn't affect our contract for completion. Everybody won except the Insurance company.

That's how it was done 35 years ago.
jlhaslip is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jlhaslip For This Useful Post:
asevereid (11-27-2017), hdavis (11-27-2017), m2akita (11-27-2017), SmallTownGuy (11-27-2017)
Old 11-27-2017, 11:48 AM   #175
Pro
 
dayexco's Avatar
 
Trade: entrepreneur of excavating expertise
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,093
Rewards Points: 128

Re: Bad Foundation


Trying to compare this to my line of work, and this is only scenario I can come up with.

Bear in mind, I've back filled hundreds, if not thousands of basements. I would never leave a customer like this. Hopefully, I'd have it replaced before they knew.

Anyway, my scenario is, I install their 4 inch sanitary sewer line. It has a 2 inch sag. Will it work? Yeah, probably for a long, long time.

Is it what I agreed and got paid to install? Hell no. Good contractors give the customer what they expected and paid for.

On edit, 90% of my work was repeat or referred. I couldn't take that chance of leaving my customer wondering what the hell happened.

Last edited by dayexco; 11-27-2017 at 01:14 PM.
dayexco is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to dayexco For This Useful Post:
fjn (11-27-2017)
Old 11-27-2017, 12:13 PM   #176
Pro
 
fjn's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,709
Rewards Points: 9,758

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by dayexco View Post
Trying to compare this to my line of work, and this is only scenario I can come up with.

Bear in mind, I've back filled hundreds, if not thousands of basements. I would never leave a customer like this. Hopefully, I'd have it replaced before they knew.

Anyway, my scenario is, I install their 4 inch sanitary sewer line. It has a 2 inch sag. Will it work? Yeah, probably for a long, long time.

Is it what I agreed and got paid to install? Hell no. Good contractors give the customer what they expected and paid for.






There is a local construction firm near me,they have been in business since 1911 and do about 500 million dollars worth of work a year. I had friends who worked for them in the late 60,s and early 70,s. I remember them years ago telling stories what a great company it was to work for. They gave you more than ample time to do your work,but expected perfection. If their superintendent saw work he did not like,he would have you tear it out and re do it,never getting excited,however,it was understood that it should not happen often. If this foundation was on their job,I would bet the wall would not be repaired,the whole foundation would be jerked out and replaced.

This company would not have survived since 1911 with less than a stellar reputation. They pride themselves on delivering on schedule,under budget projects,all the while putting safety at the forefront. Especially since they are self insured. Their superintendents develop their own punch lists prior to the final walk thru by the owners / architects. The superintendents have rivalry among st themselves to see who can deliver projects with 0 items on a final walk thru.

Their is an old saying, "you live and die by your reputation and you are only as good as your last job,period ".
fjn is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to fjn For This Useful Post:
asevereid (11-27-2017), dayexco (11-27-2017), jlhaslip (11-27-2017)
Old 11-27-2017, 01:37 PM   #177
Pro
 
dayexco's Avatar
 
Trade: entrepreneur of excavating expertise
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,093
Rewards Points: 128

Re: Bad Foundation


One of my "largest" fights, were contractors who low balled, and attempted to change order themselves into a profit.

Geesus, bid as designed, you win, you win. You lose, you lose.
dayexco is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dayexco For This Useful Post:
fjn (11-27-2017), jlhaslip (11-27-2017)
Old 11-28-2017, 09:26 AM   #178
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 21,201
Rewards Points: 376

Re: Bad Foundation


You're supposed to look at the plans, and figure out where change orders are going to be required. Then low ball knowing those change orders are 100% going to happen.

Something like bidding slab on grade assuming undisturbed soil, when you know a couple houses with basements were demoed and filled, or making a parking lot assuming normal soil conditions when you know for a fact there is ledge.
hdavis is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (11-28-2017)
Old 11-28-2017, 12:20 PM   #179
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 13,844
Rewards Points: 3,132

Re: Bad Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhaslip View Post
I'm chiming in late, as usual, but here is my story which involves a similar situation that happened back in the good old days before all of your epoxy injection stuff was available.

D4 crashed into a 30 ft wall. 8 ft height, and 8 inch thick, much like this one. The dent moved the top of the wall about 3 inches as measured after the removal of all the dirt and the machine. Footing was deemed okay, and the repair proceeded as follows under supervision of a Structural Engineer and the AHJ.

* Chisel out the cracks to open them up to about 2 inches wide on the faces (both inside and outside)to ensure there were no "loose concrete chunks" around the cracks and create a good bonding surface for step 2
* Repair the cracks using Hydraulic cement to pack the cracks.
* Re form and re pour the wall as a 12 inch wall ensuring that the inner and outer walls were plumb and straight. If I recall correctly, a different concrete mix was used with small aggregate and a more plastic mix so it would feather out into the new forming.

One advantage this project has was a wide footing than normal for an 8 inch wall because the basement was for a Log home, so it had to carry a different load than was normally found in a stick framed house. That allowed for the additional 4 inch width of the wall.

The Cat Skinner's insurance covered the additional costs, the Engineer and Inspectors were happy, the Home owner lost very little space in the basement and we picked up some extra work.
The Cat Skinner was also the buddy of the homeowner, so it didn't affect our contract for completion. Everybody won except the Insurance company.

That's how it was done 35 years ago.
yup.

Advertisement

__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to SmallTownGuy For This Useful Post:
jlhaslip (11-30-2017)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newly Poured Foundation Looks Like THIS? HouseBurnedDown Masonry 1 09-23-2017 07:58 PM
any foundation pros here? mikemane General Discussion 4 12-13-2012 10:58 PM
foundation repair question ctcarpenter Masonry 26 06-25-2012 05:25 PM
Foundation Question kuponoconstr Construction 1 02-17-2010 08:04 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?