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Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?

 
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:45 AM   #1
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Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


So, I'm replacing an entry door and trim as a part of an exterior renovation project. I've been thinking for a week on how to do this properly and I'm not liking what I come up with.

The door is doesn't have standard casing. It has fluted columns and "mantle like" top. This top has an overhang. This door and trim has rotted twice in 10 years. I want a permanent fix.

The home is brick veneer. The correct way would be to install thru-wall flashing that would get behind the brick and dump the water on top of the mantle (which is slightly sloped to allow water to sheet off). In order to do this, I need to plan and make the top of mantle fall on a mortar joint. I will also need to take out a course of brick and install a lintel to support the masonry above. Then I could work a flashing behind the brick and reinstall. I'd like to avoid this if possible.

Anyone have any other ideas? Do you understand what I'm talking about? I've attached a picture of the door and another picture showing another person's fix. I don't like the fix. It looks like crap in my opinion. The way this house is positioned you can see the top of the mantle from the street. Also, not really sure how effective this could be.

Any ideas? Do you need some sketches?
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #2
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


A copper drip cap with a counter flashing scored into the brick will handle bulk water.
Fortunatley with the window sill directly above, there will be little moisture weeping through the cavity. You could drill out some weep holes in the decorative trim if you can locate the weeps in the covered angle iron. Make a pass through.

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Old 05-23-2012, 10:38 AM   #3
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom M View Post
A copper drip cap with a counter flashing scored into the brick will handle bulk water.
Fortunatley with the window sill directly above, there will be little moisture weeping through the cavity. You could drill out some weep holes in the decorative trim if you can locate the weeps in the covered angle iron. Make a pass through.
That is similar to what I was thinking. I was considering just getting that flashing into a mortar joint and up against the brick above. I can make the mantle top land on a mortar joint with a little bit of planning. If I screw up, I can score the brick enough to get the flashing in. I figured that would stop 90% of the water infiltration. I was also considering using PVC for the 1x10's that will attach directly to the brick as a base for the trim. This might resolve the issues with the remaining 10% of water....
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:06 PM   #4
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


I'm with Tom M. I think you will always have some moisture moving through the cavity if you only kerf a joint to add flashing and I don't think there is an easy way out if you want a long term solution to the problem. Your "correct way" with through-wall flashing is what it needs.

The pvc trim against the brick is a good idea.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #5
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


It is entirely possible that both the door and the window were installed improperly (average is over 60% wrong) and there is no primary moisture barrier to put flashing under, so the water just runs down the bearing wall surface until it hits a barrier (like a header), collects and finds it way out or down further. In this situation caulk is not reliable and can be detrimental since it can hold the water behind it.

Does the brick have weeps at the bottom and vents at the top to maintain a vented air space behind the brick? Is there any sign of a moisture barrier?
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:31 PM   #6
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Its obviously covered now but I assumed there would be an angle iron over the door opening and any weeps could be transfered through the decoration.

I also agree its mostly not done correctly to begin with but I would still follow standard practice.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #7
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


The problem may exist with the "standard practices" of designing walls and especially installing windows in new construction. Replacement windows are just a "can of worms" with respect to performance since a replacement window installer cannot change past errors. Unfortunately, the "standard practices" have been inadequate as evidenced by the problems and need for others to determine the real causes.

I took a two day course for certified window installation ($600-$800). Most of the guys worked for window installation sub contractors and some were working for builders because their insurance was pushing the certification program to the extent some builders began subbing out window installation provided their subs would accept the responsibility based on previous preparation and moisture protection, which is usually poor.

I took the class to learn what is correct after getting called by insurance companies and poking hole, tearing off exteriors and running real water tests - not just spraying water on a finished walls and looking for where the water showed and not the real leak.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:36 PM   #8
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


pvc
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:08 PM   #9
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Tom's method is how I've done this (on chimney repairs)....diamond 4.5" grinder, flashing then BASF NP1 in the joint.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:10 PM   #10
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


i'd be looking at that window above it too
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:11 PM   #11
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


There could be water getting in at the brick sill also. I'd strip the brick from the window sill down. Then properly flash it so the water is directed out on top of the architrade. Re brick and you're done.

I think anything short of this and it's going to leak again.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:27 PM   #12
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


The fix may look like crap, but they were on the right track - they just didn't execute properly. This should be a pretty simple repair.

Remove the fix & if you're planning on replacing the surround, do so. Then form new copper or lead to cover the shelf on the door head, upturning the leg where it abuts the masonry by several inches.

Cut a reglet into a horizontal mortar joint & slip a formed piece of counter flashing into the reglet. This piece should be wide enough to cover the upturned leg of the first layer of flashing plus an inch or two - but don't pick a random number - let the brick coursing determine its width. Secure the flashing by driving scraps of whatever material you used for the flashing into the reglet about every foot or so. Then seal the reglet with Vulkem or a similar sealant.

Unless you can be certain the WRB is the problem, I would not touch it. It may or may not be performing properly, but I'll lay odds that's not the primary problem here. There's almost certainly an airspace between the brick veneer & the framing & it promotes diffusion. This diffusion will prevent most bulk water from making its way into the house.

True through flashings are rarely used (or necessary) on brick veneer over frame buildings, as the frame portion is usually detailed well enough (I didn't say perfectly) & far enough removed from direct elements that they aren't needed. If there's a bigger issue than an improperly flashed head shelf, it will likely be apparent in other openings. Have you checked them? I'd do that before anything else, as you should be able to get some clues as to what's really the issue. My hunch is that all that will be needed will be the flashing outlined above.

YMMV.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:37 PM   #13
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Most quality masons will use through wall above and below openings...It may be present here, it may not...I would want to find out.

Remove some brick from the window sill rowlock and work your way down to confirm. If none is present, just remove all the brick and do it right - through wall w/weeps.

Should be an easy repair as there's not much to remove. Also think about spot sealing that area w/Sure-Klean PD. That area will face constant saturation w/out it.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:49 PM   #14
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Good points SS. Thinking of wall protection, seeing as it's such a small area I would just Blueskin that area. Done.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:51 PM   #15
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Sorry I had to re-read the post about rotting out twice.

Why don't you use Fypon and or PVC- nice to work with and durable.
Here's one I did not long ago...fypon pilasters and acorn pediment in which I extended the header in PVC to cover the previous wood install.
Attached Thumbnails
Any ideas on installation to prevent water infiltration behind entry door casing?-marcusan-door-001a.jpg   Any ideas on installation to prevent water infiltration behind entry door casing?-marcusan-011a.jpg   Any ideas on installation to prevent water infiltration behind entry door casing?-marcusan-031a.jpg   Any ideas on installation to prevent water infiltration behind entry door casing?-marcusan-038a.jpg   Any ideas on installation to prevent water infiltration behind entry door casing?-marcusan-041a.jpg  

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Old 05-28-2012, 09:49 PM   #16
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr8887 View Post
So, I'm replacing an entry door and trim as a part of an exterior renovation project. I've been thinking for a week on how to do this properly and I'm not liking what I come up with.

The door is doesn't have standard casing. It has fluted columns and "mantle like" top. This top has an overhang. This door and trim has rotted twice in 10 years. I want a permanent fix.

The home is brick veneer. The correct way would be to install thru-wall flashing that would get behind the brick and dump the water on top of the mantle (which is slightly sloped to allow water to sheet off). In order to do this, I need to plan and make the top of mantle fall on a mortar joint. I will also need to take out a course of brick and install a lintel to support the masonry above. Then I could work a flashing behind the brick and reinstall. I'd like to avoid this if possible.

Anyone have any other ideas? Do you understand what I'm talking about? I've attached a picture of the door and another picture showing another person's fix. I don't like the fix. It looks like crap in my opinion. The way this house is positioned you can see the top of the mantle from the street. Also, not really sure how effective this could be.

Any ideas? Do you need some sketches?
Sketches would be helpful but thats just me.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:52 PM   #17
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


lol the caulk looks like boobs
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:12 PM   #18
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


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lol the caulk looks like boobs
With a nose between them
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #19
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


sorry for the derail
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:15 PM   #20
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Re: Any Ideas On Installation To Prevent Water Infiltration Behind Entry Door Casing?


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With a nose between them
That's a belly button.

And they're not boobs - they're saddle bag hips.

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