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Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario

 
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:15 AM   #1
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Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Got a commercial job we're working. Next step is installing several windows. Windows have nailing flanges for installation, so we need to build out the rough openings with wood some way or another to give us something to nail to.

First time I've ever had to confront doing this with the type of wall we have, which is some kind of hollow webbed block.

I've got a couple of ideas about how to get a frame attached to this stuff, but looking for some advise from any of you that may have had experience with this situation in the past.

Labor to cut the rough openings back bigger, or install the wood framing is all T&M, so I'm not concerned about doing whatever it takes to do this right.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:45 AM   #2
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Ditch the nail fins, shim window into opening and then spray foam the crap out of it.

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Old 06-23-2019, 10:47 AM   #3
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


if your gonna go wood bucks, would be helpful to make them u-shaped. Think Hollow Metal door frames in section view. That wall looks it's about to fall apart. Good Luck.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:01 AM   #4
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Had a situation very similar to that.

We packed "cells" with non-shrinking grout then used Tapcon's to attach pressure treated lumber to attach windows to. Seems like there were a couple of doors also.

In situation where the "cells" were a bottomless pit we packed them out with fiberglass insulation to a depth of 5"-6" and then filled.

From each side of a "cell", we drove 3-4 long Tapcon's that protruded into the "cell". This provided something for the grout to attach itself to.

Once we got started the process went pretty quick & painless as I recall.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:08 AM   #5
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


That looks like clay tile blocks, darn things can break just by looking at them wrong.

I'd due what Griz mentioned with the exception of running tapcons through the sides of the cells, most likely will crack the blocks.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:21 AM   #6
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lettusbee View Post
if your gonna go wood bucks, would be helpful to make them u-shaped. Think Hollow Metal door frames in section view. That wall looks it's about to fall apart. Good Luck.
I have a written transcript from the day we did the bid telling the customer that it would be far cheaper for us to knock this thing over and re-frame it then it was gonna be to do the rehab they wanted. No one believed me, and here we are. Two months and many thousands of dollars of their money later.....turns out I would have been right for once.

We've re-done the whole thing piece by piece and I'm damn tempted to just shore up these walls with a temporary, knock 'em down, and frame in a new one. F'in roof had two layers of decking and FOUR layers of asphalt shingles...can't believe these walls are even still standing.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:22 AM   #7
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Had a situation very similar to that.

We packed "cells" with non-shrinking grout then used Tapcon's to attach pressure treated lumber to attach windows to. Seems like there were a couple of doors also.

In situation where the "cells" were a bottomless pit we packed them out with fiberglass insulation to a depth of 5"-6" and then filled.

From each side of a "cell", we drove 3-4 long Tapcon's that protruded into the "cell". This provided something for the grout to attach itself to.

Once we got started the process went pretty quick & painless as I recall.
How did you inject the grout? Just troweled it in? Or did you pump it in somehow? Did you put anything a few inches into the cells to stop yourself from having to fill the entire cavity?
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:53 AM   #8
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Trowled it in.

Packed the cells out w/fiberglass to a depth of 5-6 inches
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:04 PM   #9
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


I would shim and foam it and than cap it with aluminum making sure you get all the water where you need it to go.
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:52 PM   #10
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


I had to install cabinets on a wall like that. I used caulk in anchors. I have pics I’ll post latter.

How about Snap Toggles?

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Old 06-23-2019, 12:56 PM   #11
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


You can fill the cells with a grout bag, and temp form it up to keep it from falling out.

I've also used wood sleepers in conjunction with non shrink grout so that I would not have to fuss with tapcons.
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:06 PM   #12
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


I understand OP idea of demo and redo . Those walls could or might weep moisture .Funcky unknowns . would do the grout method over the foam one .foam in windows might be faster but concerned about the mess of the foam . Maybe the grout and treated frame/bucks is just more conventional and safer .
Is there signs of moisture passing through those walls ?
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:39 PM   #13
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Do the windows have an option for through jamb mounting? Are you framing a 2x wall on the interior side?

Are you familiar with the optional brick tie fastening systems that some of the higher end windows come with?
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:51 PM   #14
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


If you are framing a 2x wall on the interior side, thes masonry clips would be a good option. Most higher end windows have them available, but they are simple to improvise as well.

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Old 06-23-2019, 03:52 PM   #15
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Quote:
Originally Posted by onmywayup View Post
I have a written transcript from the day we did the bid telling the customer that it would be far cheaper for us to knock this thing over and re-frame it then it was gonna be to do the rehab they wanted. No one believed me, and here we are. Two months and many thousands of dollars of their money later.....turns out I would have been right for once.



We've re-done the whole thing piece by piece and I'm damn tempted to just shore up these walls with a temporary, knock 'em down, and frame in a new one. F'in roof had two layers of decking and FOUR layers of asphalt shingles...can't believe these walls are even still standing.
The old chit sandwich roof.....always fun
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Old 06-23-2019, 07:29 PM   #16
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lettusbee View Post
If you are framing a 2x wall on the interior side, thes masonry clips would be a good option. Most higher end windows have them available, but they are simple to improvise as well.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
You know that is an interesting concept right there.... About half the walls are getting or have gotten already a two by four steel stud wall built on the inside of it in order to flatten out the surface and add some extra insulation.... This concept might work for those walls thanks.

I'm gonna head down there Tuesday and see if the windows have any kind of groove on the side we can hook into, or enough beef on the frames to screw straps like that into.

For the rest, I guess we'll be mixing up a portable cement mixer worth of non-shrink grout and getting to it!

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Old 06-29-2019, 11:22 AM   #17
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Re: Advise For Installing Windows In This Scenario


For future researchers: ended up taking the advice above, and it worked out awesome.

Got a wet concrete saw and cut back the rough openings to the required dimensions, plus 3" on all sides.

Packed the lowest, middle, and highest open "cells" with some random **** we had sitting around the jobsite to a depth of about 6 inches, then mixed up quikrete and packed it into the three cells on each side with a trowel.

Came in the next day, glued down a treated two by six to the bottom of the rough opening, wedged one into the top of the rough opening, then cut one for each side extremely tight. Pounded them in, drilled a quarter inch hole through the wood and then through the concrete in the cells, and secured the side two by sizes with 5/16" x 3 1/2" Tapcons.

Wrapped the frames with Protecto Wrap self adhesive flashing, caulked the back of the window nailing fins, and put the windows in. Rock. Solid.

Came inside and filled every gap between all the materials with foam. Added another layer of foil tape over the nailing flanges on the outside. Will be throwing up some PVC trim around the windows next week or so. Bam.

Thanks for the advice above gentlemen.

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