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Abuse Of Unemployment?

 
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:35 PM   #61
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
So what keeps an employer from putting his wife on the payroll as a Phantom employee to collect 26 weeks a year? Not that I would do that, but that has to be going on.
Not much unless they are exempted by the state. In some states the owner and owner's family cannot collect at all, in others they need to meet specific criteria. I'm betting there are places where exactly what you described takes place.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:05 PM   #62
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


there are guys here that abuse it such as the lobster fisherman and guys in teh construction industry.. the fisherman make $120,000 in 6 weeks than go on u.i for months while at teh same time working under the table doing other things

i know guys that have zero sense of money management for their own budget and they know they`ll have off time. they have casual full time jobs so they go so many weeks with work then have 2 days off. they have open u.i claims so for those 2 days off they claim u.i.. a couple guys i work with wont come in to work for a couple days because they dont want to work in the cold so they claim ei...

ive only claimed twice, once when i was finishing my apprenticeship going back to the classroom for 6 weeks which the government fully allows claiming ui. the other time was when i was off work for 7 weeks to recover from knee surgery. other than that i wont claim unless im off for more than 3 weeks thus until the bank account begins to get thin and need the money to cover bills
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:34 PM   #63
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk View Post
there are guys here that abuse it such as the lobster fisherman and guys in teh construction industry.. the fisherman make $120,000 in 6 weeks than go on u.i for months while at teh same time working under the table doing other things

i know guys that have zero sense of money management for their own budget and they know they`ll have off time. they have casual full time jobs so they go so many weeks with work then have 2 days off. they have open u.i claims so for those 2 days off they claim u.i.. a couple guys i work with wont come in to work for a couple days because they dont want to work in the cold so they claim ei...

ive only claimed twice, once when i was finishing my apprenticeship going back to the classroom for 6 weeks which the government fully allows claiming ui. the other time was when i was off work for 7 weeks to recover from knee surgery. other than that i wont claim unless im off for more than 3 weeks thus until the bank account begins to get thin and need the money to cover bills
I was not aware that you could collect UI while recovering from surgery. Maybe only in Canada?
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:36 PM   #64
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


I would have assumed that it would be short term disability, but maybe his boss laid him off since he couldn't work?

Just looked it up. short term disability is a branch of EI unless you or your employer has private disability insurance.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:28 PM   #65
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Sounds like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_rider
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:54 PM   #66
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Government money? Those benefits are paid for by the businesses in this state.
That's not exactly true. Unemployment Insurance has premiums.

Statistics show that the actual premiums pay less (nationwide) than 20% of the costs of unemployment compensation.

The federal government bears the vast brunt of this (somewhere in excess of 80%) and the individual states make up the difference.

Remember the current administration's two year extension (which was extended beyond two years).

Unemployment compensation premiums are for thirteen weeks.

It ain't a pay-as-you-go system. It is heavily subsidized with tax dollars.

What a country! Gotta love it, don't you?
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:30 PM   #67
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by Lanya LaPunta View Post
That's not exactly true. Unemployment Insurance has premiums.

Statistics show that the actual premiums pay less (nationwide) than 20% of the costs of unemployment compensation.

The federal government bears the vast brunt of this (somewhere in excess of 80%) and the individual states make up the difference.

Remember the current administration's two year extension (which was extended beyond two years).

Unemployment compensation premiums are for thirteen weeks.

It ain't a pay-as-you-go system. It is heavily subsidized with tax dollars.

What a country! Gotta love it, don't you?
I pay a federal unemployment as well as State. However, the employee pays zero.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:40 PM   #68
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


I recall a lot of people who worked on fishing boats collected unemployment, and I always wondered about that. They make bank while working, and it is the nature of the job to be off for a spell. Didn't think that was what unemployment was for. But, gotta worry about my stuff first.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:41 PM   #69
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


I thought those type of employers paid a much higher rate. It's really gotten so messed up since the crash.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:09 PM   #70
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Given the way that our tax dollars are often mis-appropriated by our elected officials, someone abusively collecting UI isn't exactly a big problem in my book.

I'd rather it get abused if it means that anyone who legitimately needs it can get it vs. it being a hassle for those who are entitled as a means to prevent fraud.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:40 PM   #71
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Didn't think that was what unemployment was for.

And we cannot discriminate...so that's why they qualify
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:45 AM   #72
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by BAREIN View Post
Yes, start searching disability statistics if you want a scare, there are some areas in the country that 1 in 4 people get it! I heard on a radio program that there are some veterans double dipping and getting well over 100k a year. After the crash I know several construction workers that got it. Sometimes it would take several years, but they get back pay with the right lawyer.
There are mortality tables and there are 'worklife disability' tables. Using these tables the state can tell if they are being bilked.

Statistics & probability can detect lies/fraud to some level of certainty but cannot say what the truth is.
A whole group may be defrauding the state but to say which ones of the group are doing the cheating probably takes surveillance.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:29 AM   #73
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
There are mortality tables and there are 'worklife disability' tables. Using these tables the state can tell if they are being bilked.

Statistics & probability can detect lies/fraud to some level of certainty but cannot say what the truth is.
A whole group may be defrauding the state but to say which ones of the group are doing the cheating probably takes surveillance.
If the whole group is defrauding the state, wouldn't that mean EVERYONE in the group is cheating?

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Old 02-07-2015, 11:48 AM   #74
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


One thing that gets me are people who say (and actually believe) that, "It doesn't cost anybody anything, the government pays for it."
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:42 AM   #75
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
If the whole group is defrauding the state, wouldn't that mean EVERYONE in the group is cheating?
You've got me on that one!

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Originally Posted by txgencon View Post
One thing that gets me are people who say (and actually believe) that, "It doesn't cost anybody anything, the government pays for it."
A guy at work bragged that he shoplifted a door because he didn't feel like waiting in line.
I said he is costing us all money.
He snarled "The money is already in there."
I said, "Yeah, and people like you are the reason the money is in there."

I told him he should take good care of that door because I own a very small chunk of it.

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Old 02-08-2015, 09:47 AM   #76
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanya LaPunta View Post
That's not exactly true. Unemployment Insurance has premiums.

Statistics show that the actual premiums pay less (nationwide) than 20% of the costs of unemployment compensation.

The federal government bears the vast brunt of this (somewhere in excess of 80%) and the individual states make up the difference.

Remember the current administration's two year extension (which was extended beyond two years).

Unemployment compensation premiums are for thirteen weeks.

It ain't a pay-as-you-go system. It is heavily subsidized with tax dollars.

What a country! Gotta love it, don't you?

Actually I couldn't find anything online to prove what you said about the 20% is what the rates cover.
Wiki which is notorious shows us that states all have funds collected during the good times to pay for benefits. The Feds collect from us ones a year a fee to pay for federal programs for the unemployed.
The Feds also allow states to borrow money in bad times such as during 2009. This money has to be paid back by the states to the feds with interest. Normal unemployment benefits are paid by states for 26 weeks and if the feds extend it they pay for it in full.

If you have sources that show different I would like to see them.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:05 AM   #77
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
I was not aware that you could collect UI while recovering from surgery. Maybe only in Canada?

Ya I claimed it during recovery as well. You just have to fill out a form every 2 weeks explaining your situation.

Here you can't claim for the first week of being unemployed though. I think it does help lower the volume of EI claims.

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