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Abuse Of Unemployment?

 
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Old 02-03-2015, 04:22 PM   #1
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Abuse Of Unemployment?


For my first post I decided to complain about the competition. We are a small town builder who builds about ten structures a year start to finish. New homes, light commercial, farm shops (some of which cost more than a new home).
We will build anything and bust our a** to make a good living working through 100* heat in the summer to -40 in the winter. We do not lay our employees off.
Our competitor who only does pole structures start the season about March and work till about November. They have 3 highly paid partner/owner type that probably each take home 6 figures a piece and all drive brand new company owned trucks.
My problem with this is during the time when they are not working they are ice fishing and drawing unemployment. Does this sound like a fair use of Government money? I know for a fact there is plenty of work out there!!

Rant over.
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Old 02-03-2015, 04:26 PM   #2
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
For my first post I decided to complain about the competition. We are a small town builder who builds about ten structures a year start to finish. New homes, light commercial, farm shops (some of which cost more than a new home).
We will build anything and bust our a** to make a good living working through 100* heat in the summer to -40 in the winter. We do not lay our employees off.
Our competitor who only does pole structures start the season about March and work till about November. They have 3 highly paid partner/owner type that probably each take home 6 figures a piece and all drive brand new company owned trucks.
My problem with this is during the time when they are not working they are ice fishing and drawing unemployment. Does this sound like a fair use of Government money? I know for a fact there is plenty of work out there!!

Rant over.
I never understood how its ok for the same companys and same employees to be on unemployment every year, but i am not from a northern climate. We work year round here.

I know i would not be ok with it every year as a tax payer. UI doesnt cover all that i dont think. 15 years full time in the trades never been on UI. I understand falling on hard times, but not every year. That sounds like a planned cycle to me.

But like i said, im not from a northern climate. May have an entirely different view if i was.

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Old 02-03-2015, 04:46 PM   #3
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


It's common for some...some landscapers, roofers, some heavy equipment, younger masons and mason tenders etc...
Pisses me off too. Sure they pay into it but they get back way more than they put in. Also they usually work 2000 hrs + in the eight or nine months they do work so they should have enough saved to last them through the lean times (what I do, I don't cover myself for UI). Add to that many of them take on cash work during the winter (lots of bricklayers will do a lick and stick fireplace for what works out to $15/hr because they're making another $15/hr on UI) and it just sucks because someone like me who isn't relying off the govs tit has to compete with those prices

There should either be a different tier for seasonal workers or something that prevents them from abusing it. But I'm sure someone would find a loophole and soon everyon would be right back at it
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Old 02-03-2015, 04:48 PM   #4
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Agree with Jaws. As the majority owner of the company I can't collect unemployment benefits when work is slow even though the unemployment tax is taken out of my check every two weeks for the past 15 years
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:46 PM   #5
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


They are seasonal workers. It's pretty common. Typically it's the trades noted above. In Michigan the max you can get is something like 360 a week. Not nearly enough for me to even consider it.
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:48 PM   #6
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Just my opinion , but if you choose a seasonal trade or job, you need to have a second gig lined up and not go on the dole. If it was the ideal situation you were drawing out no more than you put in, that would be great.
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:55 PM   #7
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


In Illinois, prior to each check there is an online form that needs to be completed which includes lots of questions. One of the questions is about which companies to whom you have applied for employment.

I know lots of guys that simply lie their butts off since sometimes I am asked if they can use my company to cover for them. Uh....NO! They consider that a denial of employment I guess.

It's a wacked system here too and pisses me off.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:11 PM   #8
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Just my opinion , but if you choose a seasonal trade or job, you need to have a second gig lined up and not go on the dole. If it was the ideal situation you were drawing out no more than you put in, that would be great.


Unfortunately here in the north it would be difficult to get trades like excavators, landscapers, or masons. I'm not saying I think it's a great system, but trust me none of the guys doing it are getting rich.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:15 PM   #9
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


In Il too.Know 3 guys that got laid off from their regular gig when the company shut down.They have been drawing $385 a week for two years UI while working under the table for $25 an hour and staying very busy.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:16 PM   #10
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Originally Posted by mrcharles View Post
Unfortunately here in the north it would be difficult to get trades like excavators, landscapers, or masons. I'm not saying I think it's a great system, but trust me none of the guys doing it are getting rich.
The ones who are working for cash to bump up their UI are doing OK.

Mako beat me to it
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:17 PM   #11
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


My guys are off a few weeks every winter. There are 12+ inches of snow on the ground, can't do anything and be productive.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:19 PM   #12
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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In Il too.Know 3 guys that got laid off from their regular gig when the company shut down.They have been drawing $385 a week for two years UI while working under the table for $25 an hour and staying very busy.


Assuming they are working 40 hours a week that's about 66k a year.... I have lived in Illinois, and that would cover me living there, but not if I had a family.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:25 PM   #13
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


We just suck it up and work through the winter. A few years ago, I did have my guys on UI for about 8 weeks due to lack of work. My intentions this year were to lay guys off from Jan thru the end of Feb. Didn't work out, we are super busy. Most of the concrete and landscaper guys also have plows, so they get some work that way.

Unemployment at its best pays guys 50% fo what they made full time. Not enough to survive on for a long period. I see resumes on CL all the time for guys who want to work for cash. I am sure a lot of these guys are laid off and collecting. It would be really easy to enforce employment law if they would just make a decent effort.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:34 PM   #14
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


There's a whole culture of people who work just to get to the point that they can collect, then figure out how to get terminated without cause. Tons of them in this city. Rather than ask "How are you doing? What are you up to?" when they meet on the street or talk on the phone, it's "Hey, dude.... You collecting?" It drives me nuts. If you ask them about it, it's OK, because the government has all the money, anyway, why shouldn't they get some? or some such thing.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:39 PM   #15
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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My guys are off a few weeks every winter. There are 12+ inches of snow on the ground, can't do anything and be productive.
There is a big difference between a few weeks and several months year after year after year. Why not have a different tier for seasonal workers. They pay in more during their working months or something to that effect. If they know they are going to be off for 3 months why not have to put in enough to actually pay themselves. They have different rules for overtime here...why not for UI?

I understand that it's necessary or there would be way too much turn over each spring but they should pay in at least close to what they receive
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:42 PM   #16
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Lots of good points made on the topic.
We looked into laying off a few guys 2 years ago, called into the workforce development and got some facts. We have never used our unemployment so we pay a very low percentage in. If we used unemployment we would go through sort of a lottery type thing and randomly could be picked for a percentage hike! No guarantees so we decided we were better off paying the guys to sweep the shop and polish equipment.

In Iowa I believe you get 70 % of your weekly earnings prior to the "lay off". Im not sure how an owner receives this but there are ways around it im sure.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:45 PM   #17
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
For my first post I decided to complain about the competition. We are a small town builder who builds about ten structures a year start to finish. New homes, light commercial, farm shops (some of which cost more than a new home).
We will build anything and bust our a** to make a good living working through 100* heat in the summer to -40 in the winter. We do not lay our employees off.
Our competitor who only does pole structures start the season about March and work till about November. They have 3 highly paid partner/owner type that probably each take home 6 figures a piece and all drive brand new company owned trucks.
My problem with this is during the time when they are not working they are ice fishing and drawing unemployment. Does this sound like a fair use of Government money? I know for a fact there is plenty of work out there!!

Rant over.
Government money? Those benefits are paid for by the businesses in this state.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:53 PM   #18
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


I know some guys up here who end up on UI pretty consistently, December through March. I'm not sure how I feel about it. They are generally exterior guys, landscaping, masonry, etc. that pull in close to 2000 hours over the course of the nine months, or so, that they work every year. On the on hand, that means that a fair bit of UI is being paid but, on the other hand, they're basically getting a year's worth of pay and then taxpayers give them a three month bonus.

The tough part for me is that, if I had a business like that, I would want my guys to get that UI as most hired help won't have the discipline to budget out those wages. I care about my help more than Joe Taxpayer. It's a bit of a Catch-22.

I've never successfully collected UI. I lost my job after 9/11(I lived in NYC) and they were able to "lose" my paperwork several times, even though I was notified that I qualified.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:57 PM   #19
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I know some guys up here who end up on UI pretty consistently, December through March. I'm not sure how I feel about it. They are generally exterior guys, landscaping, masonry, etc. that pull in close to 2000 hours over the course of the nine months, or so, that they work every year. On the on hand, that means that a fair bit of UI is being paid but, on the other hand, they're basically getting a year's worth of pay and then taxpayers give them a three month bonus.

The tough part for me is that, if I had a business like that, I would want my guys to get that UI as most hired help won't have the discipline to budget out those wages. I care about my help more than Joe Taxpayer. It's a bit of a Catch-22.
The first paragraph is my main issue with it.

As for the 2nd paragraph...tough. If you can't be an adult and not blow all your money when you know there is a regular slow down coming up..... learn
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:09 PM   #20
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Re: Abuse Of Unemployment?


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Government money? Those benefits are paid for by the businesses in this state.
I believe those benefits are paid by every legal business To the government who then disperses it to whoever gets laid off.
Laid off and not wanting to work in the cold are two different things.

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