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Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?

 
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:01 PM   #21
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


I thought there was a picture of it out of place, I looked back at the posts three separate times, I almost said this stupid app, and was checking the post #'s. Thanks for the confirmation Chuck.
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Old 06-15-2015, 11:27 AM   #22
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


I don't understand what you're saying. I'm sorry.
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Old 06-15-2015, 11:40 AM   #23
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


I thought someone posted a picture that the barrier was in the wrong place, not overlapped or some discrepancy.

What happened to the old Chuck(sorry, I is right next to u)that argued with everyone?

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Old 06-15-2015, 11:50 AM   #24
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccoffer View Post
Yes the plastic is in the wrong spot

WTF? Where should it be? On the roof? The method is as old as tile. You put paper or plastic over the studs and then make sure the bottom laps over the pan liner. It's pretty rudimentary stuff. This is described literally in detail in that mysterious thing called the TCA handbook and has been since before most of us were born.
I will have to take your word that it is still in the TCA handbook as mine also has walked... & I really haven't seen the need to get a new one

With that, sorry it is wrong, especially in todays newer houses as the tolerances for any little failure are quickly dropping to zero. I can't tell you how many I have ripped out over the years were everything was soaked but hey we have done it this way for years.

You have a few issues here - first the vapor barrier is in the wrong spot unless you believe that the main water penetration area is in the wall cavity. Number 2 is once you applied the screws through said vapor barrier it essentially stopped being one - sure it might eliminate diffusion, but diffusion is not the issue - it is the 1+% of water getting through the tile / grout.

Can it still work - yes if you are super anal about the install (though I would say you are still rolling the dice) and better yet also use non-porous grout & tiles. Sure they can seal everything, but they have to keep on it I don't know how many homeowners really are that good about it.
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Old 06-15-2015, 12:16 PM   #25
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


There was nothing super anal about anything on this instal. It looks like Ray Charles and Ronny Milsap grouted it in. Wholes in the grout and wide to narrow joints everywhere. They also used unsanded grout and told the home owner it never needs to be sealed. I feal bad for the home owner for this shower was built for there handicapped kid and it's not if it's going to fail but when.
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Old 06-15-2015, 01:36 PM   #26
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


With that, sorry it is wrong, especially in todays newer houses

Huh? It's hardly "wrong". It's been done this way forever. Or recommended anyway. Surface applied waterproofing membranes are a superior method, but not because the other method leads to failure. The wet shower method stays wet. The backer, the pan mud, the curb, etc. It all stays wet, so over time it becomes a mold producing entity. It takes a long time for a properly built wet shower to do that, but it eventually happens.

Most shower failures are due to the abject stupidity of the proud jackasses who put them together. Guys who don't use boots, don't bother to put a damn thing behind the backer, nail friggen backer board to a curb and about a thousand other dumbass things I routinely see done by people who think they're God's gift to tile because they had the wherewithal to acquire five gallon bucket and a trowel.
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Old 06-15-2015, 01:47 PM   #27
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


There he is.

If you're a member of NTCA, they send you the handbook every year, the 2015 is 450 pages, other privileges as well worth it.
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Old 06-16-2015, 08:55 AM   #28
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


Trying to repair a badly done shower is iffy. If the vapor barrier drains down outside of the pan (you mentioned it going to the subfloor) and the pan is wobbly when you step in it, how can you repair it? A problem with trying to repair a bad shower install is that you don't know what else is wrong.

Many, including me, won't repair a shower, only re-do it.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:47 AM   #29
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


I've explained that to the home owner. I've left the tile off and she is contacting the origanal installer. Thanks
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:04 PM   #30
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


Pan is wobbly, thats says tear out to me on some level. Vapor barrier behind cement backer has to drain into the shower/bath tub. I wouldn't screw plastic anyways, but I do staple, then use tape over the staple. Your CB will still get screwd in, so your fubared on some level. Thats why the membrane keri/durock or paint over redguard is superior- there's less stuff that is "wet" all the time.

Whats wet the old way:
Thinset, cement backer

Whats wet now:
Thinset

Whats wet the old shower pan way:
Thinset, a few inches of bedding mortar. Stays pretty much wet all the time.

New way:
Thinset

Its like wearing a rain coat over your sweater. vs wearing a sweater over your rain coat. Done correct, you'll stay dry both ways, but it takes a heck of a lot longer to dry out.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:52 PM   #31
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


Home owner is giving them a chance to tear it out and start over.
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:32 PM   #32
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Re: Vapor Barrier Behind Hardi Backer?


What is everyone's take on using an intelligent plastic barrier such as "membraine" behind the cement board for a shower wall? Also, this shower wall is a double left curb and the two corner walls are exterior walls. We used mineral wool Ultrabatts by Owners Corning in the exterior walls. Advice please!

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