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Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor

 
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:20 PM   #1
 
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Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


I'm in a bad predicament here. I'm attempting to remove 12 x 12" porcelain tiles from a wooden subfloor. The subfloor itself is 3/4" ply that is probably nailed or stapled to the joists. On top of that is a 7/16" plywood that is glued and stapled to the subfloor. There are so many staples and with the glue, it's impossible to get the layer of ply OFF of the subfloor.

This is very labor intensive to bust out all of the tiles and it leaves the subsurface in disarray. I'm wondering what my best solution for this problem is. At this point, I'm considering the following:

1. Bust out all of the tile and then grind and sand the remaining adhesive (cement based) as smooth as possible. Then use a cement based compount to fill in the low spots and sand the floor again. If it's not level enough to install the wood floor on top, I'll use 1/4" to 1/2" ply and raise the floor which will provide me a smoother transition.

2. Attempt to saw through the subfloor and plywood layer from the basement and remove that in sections. This will leave me the joists with both layers of subfloor. I will then start prying the subfloor off the joists and replace the subfloor.

Why didn't they just screw backerboard to the subfloor, so I could just remove all this in sheets!

Any other brilliant ideas?
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:33 PM   #2
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


Bust out all the tile. Use a rotary hammer without the rotation and with a wide chisel bit.

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Old 11-04-2008, 04:52 PM   #3
 
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


So, bust out the tile to get the big pieces out. Then use the rotary hammer and chisel to remove the rest of the cement adhesive.

Then how do you recommend that I prep the floor to make it even again?
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


PaDiddle777 I'm curious...do you make your own surrounds and if so do you use Portland 746 or PK-14?
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:16 PM   #5
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


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Old 11-04-2008, 06:42 PM   #6
 
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


I just started doing surrounds. I treat them like countertops for now and only do slab work. I've been using the Buddy Rhodes mix, but I have to drive to Cleveland to pick it up and it's about $40 per bag. Cheng says to use the $4 QuickCrete, so I'm about to do a test run with Cheng's color mixes and the QuickCrete on my own home.

I'm thinking about taking an advanced training course to learn how to do the fiberglass reinforced molds for surrounds and sinks etc...
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Old 11-05-2008, 06:58 PM   #7
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


what kind of installation are you doing? nailing? glue? prefinished?

it seems you answered your own question..just get the tile up and install some 1/4" over it.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:19 PM   #8
 
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


I'm replacing some of the tile with other porcelain tile, but most of it will be a nail down install of some 5/8" engineered brazilian walnut with 3mm of cork underlayment.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:40 PM   #9
 
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


I guess my next question is:

Is there any way I wouldn't have to lay down an additional layer of subfloor? I would have to do about 1500 sq ft with lots of angles and cabinets.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:17 AM   #10
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


why not use a floating floor like Kahr's? leave the tile in and just go over it? or maybe you could rent a tile demo machine but time and labor =$$$.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:23 AM   #11
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


forgot. there is a hand held air tool that's made for removal,too. just can't think of the name right now. try a search.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:51 AM   #12
 
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


I had an air chisel. It's no good for busting up the tile. It takes too long and tends to go into the wood versus the tile because the wood is much softer. I have a feeling that any machine would do the same. A sledgehammer works great and I use a mini sledge near edges and cabinets.

I've already busted out 150 sq ft of the tile, so it's too late to change the method.

At this point, I'm going to see what the other rooms look like after I bust the tile out. The hammer drill with a wide chisel works very well to remove any remaining tile and adhesive, but it is still tough work. I'm hoping that I can patch up the subfloor and NOT have to lay a new subfloor.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:17 PM   #13
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


here's the link for an air powered chisel "stick".

ishoptileequipment.com/brand/edko


they range in price so look around. that busting out with a hammer isn't much fun. at least it isn't tile over cement board. it would take 2-3x longer. lucky you, right?
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:23 PM   #14
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


i like to use a lighter hammer about 16oz. It doesn't wear you out as much. And if you strike the tile just right, it will "bounce" off the floor.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:13 AM   #15
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


that's the worst job ever
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:43 AM   #16
 
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


I never thought about using a lighter hammer. There are some spots with too much adhesive and it's hard enough to bust them up with the sledge. On areas where there is the correct amount of bonding agent, the tiles break up quickly and cleanly though.

olzo55, HarborFreight has an air scraper for $99. I tried it.

The problem with that is like I said, the chisel wants to go into the wood subfloor rather than the tile because the wood is softer. With a hammer drill and a 1" chisel, it's easier to scrape off the areas where the bottom of the porcelain tile broke away from the top because of too much bonding agent and areas of excess bonding agent. I'm also going to use an angle grinder with masonry grinding wheels to smooth out the leftover adhesive. I'll apply a leveling compount and sand it smooth. This is assuming that most of the rest of the tile comes relatively clean.
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:43 PM   #17
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


be sure to read the leveler direction carefully. priming the floor may be neccessary. also, some want you to put down metal lath. just be sure you do everything they say or you'll doing it again.
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Old 11-08-2008, 07:23 PM   #18
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


you never need primer or wire for levelee over plywood..its a double layer at that..


just use dash patch if you dont want to add an additonal layer..

easier than levelers and sands easy, holds nails and adhesive.... wont need any sanding or much at all if you trowel it in right and scrape excess with a long sharp strait edge
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:11 PM   #19
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamestrd View Post
you never need primer or wire for levelee over plywood..its a double layer at that..


just use dash patch if you dont want to add an additonal layer..

easier than levelers and sands easy, holds nails and adhesive.... wont need any sanding or much at all if you trowel it in right and scrape excess with a long sharp strait edge

Dude, your on a roll tonight.

Wrong again. Primer is required on all substrates, for all SLCs that I am aware of. Further, wire lathe IS required over plywood. Good grief where do you get your info from??
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:02 PM   #20
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Re: Removing Porcelain Tile On Stapled And Glued Subfloor


Capt Chaos strikes again..

so I assume you have worked with every SLC on market huh??

wire lathe is an "alternate" method in most and may be required for a subfloor in poor quality or lacking sufficient thickness...

secondly, why would you prime if you used lath??? seems counter productive dont you think?

he is looking to patch not level a whole floor. and has over 11/4 substrate..

I have only used primer on concrete, and most often polished concrete after scarifying and not knowing what type of contamintaes are on the floor...

simply not the case in a sound plywood subfloor.

(if you like Bostik, yea they require all that good stuff so that they dont have to warranty anything and can sell you more products)

now, we are talking wood floor, not tile. or other surfaces.
still wish to test???? dude???

do some research before you spit off at the mouth.

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