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Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...

 
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #1
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Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


The first one had water up to the sill plates and the wood has started cupping. Insurance wanted an est for full rip out of all hw and subfloor.

Second one had 2 inches of sea water over the top of the wood for a few hours. It has been a month since the storm and I looked at the job three days ago. I was amazed that there was only a little crowning. Not too bad at all. Lady wants a quote for full rip for insurance and "a second one" for her - just to cut & poly.

I actually think it would pass with just a resand, provided the floor doesn't grow any further. However, I was concerned about mold.

The south shore of Long Island got slammed. Poor folks in Long Beach & Rockaway's.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:12 PM   #2
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


Mold is reason enough to rip out any floor that was under water. Secondly, the floor may look okay now that everything has swelled evenly, but as it dries out, the flooring will contract differently than the sub-floor and my money would be bet on gappage when the heat gets on it and the moisture level stabilizes. Cupping would be a safe bet as well.

I ripped a tile floor out on Friday that had Hardie backer over two layers of 1/2" CDX and there were literally puddles between the layers still.

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Old 12-03-2012, 07:19 PM   #3
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


Floor was old and nasty to begin with. Plenty of gaps and spaces ...which is prob why it didnt really cup too much.

I was pushing for a rip out but I think the lady wanted to pocket the difference between two quotes I gave.
I wasnt giving ANY guarantee for anything on a resand.

How much water was in the house you did?
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #4
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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Originally Posted by InterCounty View Post
The first one had water up to the sill plates and the wood has started cupping. Insurance wanted an est for full rip out of all hw and subfloor.

Second one had 2 inches of sea water over the top of the wood for a few hours. It has been a month since the storm and I looked at the job three days ago. I was amazed that there was only a little crowning. Not too bad at all. Lady wants a quote for full rip for insurance and "a second one" for her - just to cut & poly.

I actually think it would actually pass with a resand, provided the floor doesn't grow any further. However, I was concerned about mold.

The south shore of Long Island got slammed. Poor folks in Long Beach & Rockaway's.
I wouldn't do that seperate estimate thing, that hinges on insurance fraud. IMO. And she probably will just keep all the money and get a relative to bandaid it for free anyways.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:05 PM   #5
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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I wouldn't do that seperate estimate thing, that hinges on insurance fraud. IMO. And she probably will just keep all the money and get a relative to bandaid it for free anyways.
Sounds like you have been there. I think we have all been there. If I get that impression its a $100 bill for the proposal, but that gets you what you want, a juicey proposal with all the pertinent insurance words like pre existing, and pre disaster condition, and 287.25 sq.ft stuff..
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:19 PM   #6
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


In '08 we had record flooding and that year with the tornado that wiped out towns and then followed by record flooding, that year almost bankrupt me the way the insurance and mortguage companies handled things.

anyhow, after dealing with the flood side and all the things that went with it, your first call should be to the inspectors office and see what is being mandated. After the flood here receeded, anything that was touched by water had to be ripped out and replaced. Walls opened up, insulation/wiring removed/plumbing removed, studs and floor joists allowed to air out and then needed to be sprayed/disinfected with blech to kill mold spores before the rebuilding process could begin.

Things may be all good right now, but it's cold out...all that moisture is still sitting in knooks and cranny's waiting for next summer hot moist air to activate and blow the house up with black mold. our flood happened during the summer when it was already hot and mold was growing rammpant within a week after water receeded...upnorth there it is going to wait before showing it's ugly face.

Only solution is to completely remove the flooring, allow the subfloor to air out and how it does'nt buckle/warp and then redo. Sounds extreme, but in reality it is. You try to half azz a fix now, it will come back and get you next summer.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:52 PM   #7
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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How much water was in the house you did?
The tile floor was under water by 8". It's a kitchen off the garage that serves as a pool house/second kitchen. The main floor is 8" higher and was mostly finished in place oak hardwood. about 1,300 sq. ft. of that came out and all the full sheets of subfloor were removed to gain access to a very tight crawlspace, in order to replace all the insulation, ductwork and under floor wiring. Water was right up to the bottom of the subfloor and was percolating through the floor registers.

Another building one street over, which we just finished a renovation on over the Summer took about 14" on the first floor, which was tile on concrete slab. The storm also washed away a 12x36 dock and undermined a bulkhead walkway we did, along with most of the vinyl fence.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:23 AM   #8
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


I just finished removing and replacing the hardwood floor in a hall bath, which was flooded by a sink supply bursting.

Homeowner said it happened three months ago. When I pulled the hardwood up, there was water still trapped between the felt paper and the subfloor.

In order to properly dry out, I think a structure needs to be stripped to the studs and joists.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:18 AM   #9
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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I wouldn't do that seperate estimate thing, that hinges on insurance fraud. IMO. And she probably will just keep all the money and get a relative to bandaid it for free anyways.
How in the world is that fraud on my part?

Potential customer asks for a quote to resand existing floor and quote for rip & install. I give two quotes, but recommend the full rip.

What she does after I complete my work, get paid and then leave, surely cant make me liable.

What if someone wants two quotes for sanding just a living room, and another for sanding the living room AND the bedroom? They get the option for additional work.

If the insurance called me in directly and I was dealing with them.
...well that would be another story.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:48 AM   #10
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


It is not fraud on your part, it would be fraud if you gave them an inflated invoice for work that you did not do.

If they tell their insurance co. that the whole floor was ripped out and it was not, it is fraud on their part not yours.

Invoices are different from estimates
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:22 PM   #11
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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It is not fraud on your part, it would be fraud if you gave them an inflated invoice for work that you did not do.

If they tell their insurance co. that the whole floor was ripped out and it was not, it is fraud on their part not yours.

Invoices are different from estimates
Have to agree. Your just presenting options and costs. The insurance company owes to get the loss to "pre loss" condition. If they had wood and decided to go with glue down carpet or vise versa it wouldn't be an issue would it? We do changes on insurance jobs all the time. As long as your not including things that aren't in the scope of the loss like say the roof I don't see the issue.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #12
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


Hey Brian,

The standard line should be rip it all out. I've already removed a couple floors flooded from Sandy, and even after weeks of "dry time", it's still damp between the hardwood and subfloor.

I'll let you know about that 800' Freeport home. They're still waiting on insurance before Im allowed to tear apart anything. 5 weeks of mold growth in there and it's nasty.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:14 PM   #13
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


Quote:
Originally Posted by InterCounty View Post
Lady wants a quote for full rip for insurance and "a second one" for her - just to cut & poly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mixalot View Post
I wouldn't do that seperate estimate thing, that hinges on insurance fraud. IMO. And she probably will just keep all the money and get a relative to bandaid it for free anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterCounty View Post
How in the world is that fraud on my part?

Potential customer asks for a quote to resand existing floor and quote for rip & install. I give two quotes, but recommend the full rip.

What she does after I complete my work, get paid and then leave, surely cant make me liable.

What if someone wants two quotes for sanding just a living room, and another for sanding the living room AND the bedroom? They get the option for additional work.

If the insurance called me in directly and I was dealing with them.
...well that would be another story.
I guess it's just how that first post reads to me.
Quote:
Lady wants a quote for full rip for insurance and "a second one" for her - just to cut & poly
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:57 AM   #14
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


I'm still repairing stuff from the three hurricanes we had seven yrs ago................Think(know) a lot of people took the money and kept it. now the new owners are fixing things.

We started charging $100 for estimates. It was crazy.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:58 AM   #15
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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I'm still repairing stuff from the three hurricanes we had seven yrs ago................Think(know) a lot of people took the money and kept it. now the new owners are fixing things.

We started charging $100 for estimates. It was crazy.
This is a very true statement..

I still see tabs of shingles missing on roofs and boards on some windows in the shady parts of town..you know it is from Jeanne or Frances or even Wilma..
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #16
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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I'm still repairing stuff from the three hurricanes we had seven yrs ago................Think(know) a lot of people took the money and kept it. now the new owners are fixing things.

We started charging $100 for estimates. It was crazy.
Seeing the samething here too. I'm also fixing a lot of damage from shotty roof jobs and unskilled so called drywallers during that time.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:35 PM   #17
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


X2 on the ripout.

My buddy let his sink overflow in his kitchen and it soaked the wood floor and the basement family room below it. He took out the drywall in the basement ceiling and after 8 months, the cupping went away completely.

The insurance company made him rip it all out anyway and he was shocked to discover that everything underneath was still wet.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:15 PM   #18
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


Wood floor can be dried with removal. There are meters that allow you to rear moisture content of materials and lots if stuff to positively of negatively pressurize the floor to dry it. Same thing with drywall. We dry both of those all the time when conditions allow.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:34 PM   #19
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Re: Looked At Two Hurricane Sandy Flood Jobs...


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Second one had 2 inches of sea water over the top of the wood for a few hours. However, I was concerned about mold.
Sea water does not allow mold to grow.Only algae.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #20
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Sea water does not allow mold to grow.Only algae.
Well, something sure grows.
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