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Is this a rip off?

5K views 38 replies 22 participants last post by  Mordekyle 
#1 ·
Hi all, I did a bid for built in's around a fire place and got ran out of the customers house "for being way over priced and trying to scam them", it's 2 book cases 10' tall, 6' wide, and 20" deep each, bottom 3 feet is cabinets, both have crown moulding, and they would be built with veneer ply carcass and hardwood face and doors, all with white enamel finish, and both have led lighting on every shelf, I bid $13,250 and thought that was fair, is that a ripoff? Any help is extremely appreciated

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#3 ·
welcome to CT,

We don't do specific pricing discussions here, too many variables, my cost is not your cost, your profit goals are not mine, what may look like tree fiddy to me, might look like three fifty to you.

Only you can determine what pricing you need to charge, if the customer asked you for a price on a cabinet and you told them what it would cost for you to do it, I am not sure how you are taking advantage of them but they were nice enough to show you that they are probably not good customers and you should thank them and move on
 
#5 ·
Premium house, premium neighborhood, fixed shelves, and when talking to them the first time it didn't seem like they wanted super cheap stuff like ikea, and nothing else in the home looked like ikea, and sorry about the pricing rule, I guess I'll go read the forum rules now lol
 
#9 ·
Don’t worry about the “pricing rules” your question seems acceptable based on my interpretations of the rules. It’s not like you were asking us to do the bid for you. TBS, I have no idea what would be a fair price based on the info. you gave, from what I can gather it would be about $10K for me to do it around here. I’m sure those customers wouldn’t have been any happier with that price either. Maybe semi-custom is more this customers style, get some cheap prefab. cabinets and throw in some crown, end panels and extra shelving. That might get it down to $5Kish. Depending on what your painter needs.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Yeah, but he got accused of trying to scam. Based on those specs, it doesn't reach that level. Whether he's off by 2k or more or less, compared to other reputable pros, we can't tell.

Talking loosely....a 12 wall length x 8' high set up, three part (tv in center), white, LED lighting...12' depth shelves... cabinets below...client was happy to get it for 10.
 
#7 ·
I don't see how giving someone a price constitutes a scam. You give them the price, they politely say no end of discussion. No scam involved.

The mistake you made here is you didn't qualify the client. First thing you ever nail down is the budget. If you don't talk numbers first you are wasting your time.

They probably have no idea costs associated and just see that it's 900 bucks at Ikea so they figured you could do it for 2k. Then you throw 13k in their face and you look like a monster.

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#10 · (Edited)
I did try to nail down a budget, I always do, but you're probably right about them not knowing the price cause they wouldn't give a budget, they said we'd talk budget after I gave them the price, I do need to start qualifying customers more

Haha thanks for the info bigjames definitely not trying to get you guys to bid something for me, just wanted to get a rough idea if I was to high on price or not, and so far I've gotten what I was looking for and pretty quick too, will definitely be using this forum a lot more from now on, super helpful
 
#12 ·
I did try to nail down a budget, I always do, but you're probably right about them not knowing the price cause they wouldn't give a budget, they said we'd talk budget after I gave them the price, I do need to start qualifying customers more
Either way we hope you stick around and show us some of your work, based on your first post it looks like you do some nice stuff.
 
#14 ·
Calling it a scam without knowing or asking what all was involved was a lowlife move. Comparing custom work isn't like shopping at Home Depot but even then prices vary by product. Part of the problem with this sort of work is you are on their turf and some people feel embolden to treat you like an underling.

I had a shop for a long time and people do have a different attitude when they are on unfamiliar grounds. Some of them are still creeps but it's enjoyable to show them the door.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Screw em !!!

I've gotten into the habit of being quite upfront with HO's. My first questions:

Have you gotten any other bids yet and what was the range?
What do you think it will cost and where is your budget line?

Then I'll throw a ballpark figure at them: "A job like this is going to run $9-12k." If you are OK with that we can sit down at the table and hash out all the specifics, go over the contract in detail and I collect 30-40% to get things rolling. I m pretty busy right now but I'd be able to schedule you in my books if you are interested." If not, I understand and good luck with your project. "

In defense of HO's: most of them have no clue to how much things are going to cost, esp/ custom work. I always make a point to explain things to them in a nice professional manner. Especially the older crowds. I recently had an elderly couple wanting me to strip off wallpaper in their kitchen/dining room area and paint it. They honestly thought it would cost a few hundred dollars. Seriously.

Many are just plain ignorant but some of just tightwad jerks. I don't do charity work nor do I work for whiney tightwads.
 
#24 ·
I recently had an elderly couple wanting me to strip off wallpaper in their kitchen/dining room area and paint it. They honestly thought it would cost a few hundred dollars. Seriously.
I once gave a bid to an older couple to paint their house. I don't remember the price, but I'm thinking it was between 1-2K. Anyhow, I gave it to him, explained what I'd be doing...scraping...repairs that I knew about (wood sided house)...the brand/type/etc of the paint and primer. He says "See that garage?...I had a guy tell me he'd paint that for $50".............."Well I think you should probably call him then, sir. My material costs alone are over $500"........"You need to leave!!" (which I was already doing by the time he said it)
 
#19 ·
They are just losers trying to get something for nothing. They've probably been doing it their entire life. For some it's a game to see how much they can screw over other people. They're trying to find someone starting out that they can talk down to 9k to start. Then they will nit pick the job to try to pay 5k or just refuse to pay the final payment (until it's up to their know nothing "satisfaction").

There are a lot of these people out there. The trick is to avoid them quickly. Here are some of the warning signs:

1. They've had lots of problems with "horrible" previous contractors.
2. They won't pay a small bid deposit (even $50 will weed these people out)
3. They live in a higher end home than their position in life would normally suggest.
4. They ask for many variables to be priced separately.
5. If you listen carefully they will often tell you about "deals" they have scored.
6. They are getting more than 3 bids.
 
#26 ·
I love those!!

Me: "I came up with $536 for the work we talked about"

Them: "Can you do any........better?"

Me: "Sure!! ....how about an even $1000? That sounds a lot better"

long pause.........

Me: "OHHHHH, you meant better for YOU? Yea, no. I can't make it 'better' for you any more than I would make it 'better' for me. The price is what I need to do the job. I'm not just pulling numbers outta my a$$ here."
 
#23 ·
It would only be a rip-off if that's the number you determined you needed to be in business and then you started dropping your pants to buy the business...

One way to avoid that when qualifying and they say they "don't have a budget" is to say something along the lines of...

"I buy things too and also like to get the best for the least amount that's realistic. What would be your dream price, and what would be the maximum you can afford or envision spending to bring you a project like this? There are different levels of materials and finishes that are available, and I want to make sure that what I propose covers everything you want but is also realistic to your wallet to make sure we have a match."...
 
#30 ·
I always like it when the first thing they say is, I have a small project and I don't really want to spend a lot of money on this. Then we look and it is something like a full wrap around porch redo, and/or half the house is falling down.

Then the next thing they say is, that's why I called you. We just need a handyman to fix it, all the contractors I called are too expensive.

Some of my customers call me thier handyman, which is fine. Then the referrals see you the same way. You just need to reestablish the relationship with your new ones.

Like most, I do handyman type stuff occasionally, but at contractor rates. Mostly, anyway.

I wouldn't think that price is too out of line, though I have no experience to base it off of.

Custom work is expensive. And so what if you are significantly more expensive than the other guys. I'm more expensive than many guys I know, and I know guys that make me look like a handyman with my rates.

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#31 ·
I do standing seam metal roofing. The approximate budget cost is typically 3x the cost of standard asphalt shingles, but the details (thus cost) vary widely.

I assess the approximate square footage, use my budget multiplier, account for any exceptional circumstances and come up with a high budget. I provide the budget as soon as I have established enough of a rapport with the customer, that I believe they know I can deliver what I sell. Then it's move forward (with an actual bid) or move along. Let's avoid the time investment pretending they will spend $30k, when all they will ever spend is $10k.

Customers need to come to terms with what a custom contractor provides. A customer who is afraid a contractor will "take advantage" of them just because they have revealed their budget, needs to be educated why that is a false premise. If they choose ignorance over trust ( I am addressing honest contractors here), it's time to close the presentation and wish them well.

Say I moved on with a bid that is supported by the budget guidelines offered.

Can I do it for less?

Should I do it for less?

Do I want to do it for less?

Will I do it for less?

IOW, have I come up with a reasonable number to provide the service quoted?

Don't these questions come up every time a project gets bid? I mean while you're still at the drawing board and before you meet with the customer to present the bid?

Having to defend a price to a customer (and not necessarily the specific customer in the OP) is a lot easier if you have already convinced yourself it's the right number.

Now on the customer side, they have to deal with their circumstance. Someone who has $7500 to spend could react in a lot of ways when the bid is $13,000. Everyone is better off when budget guidelines are discussed upfront. Much less wasted time.
 
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