In Shop Blasting VS On Site Blasting

zeke1

I have a few questions about in shop blasting, 1/ what do you do for blast rooms? ( other than buying new high dollar blast rooms) 2/ what do you use for dust collectors in shop and inside on job site? (what works for you) 3/ how do you guys clean up when on site, indoor and outdoor?

plazaman

dont have a shop but outdoors is broom & shovel. industrial guys have industrial vacuums

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zeke1

I know the "big" companys have vacum trucks come in I was just hopeing there might be a better way than broom and shovel, doesn't it take almost as much time to sweep than blast? and how do you price the clean up? sounds like the hardest part of the job to me.

plazaman

depending on how much startup money you have, you can purchase smaller vacuum units. im in residential construction, so i basically know how long it would take for a clean up

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BulldogMedia

I use a paint booth I picked up cheap with a airwall type dust collector for my in shop blasting. The few inside jobs I have done I used fans to blow out the dust(worked but not great).

I am looking at mounting another airwall type dust collector on a trailer with a generator to power it for future use.

As far as clean up broom and shovel and charge my hourly blasting rate for it.

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zeke1

I have been looking for old paint booths, not eazy to find, and dust collectors, expensive, I was just wondering if anyone had come across something cheaper or eazier to find I didn't think so but worth asking about to be sure thanks for the replies. Which brings me to my next question what do you guys charge per hour blasting, is it different from in shop to on site, and what are the variables you use to quote? I want to be reasonable but not quote myself out of business. I plan on having both in shop and on site services, I have alot of equipment but no shop at the moment and am new to blasting so any help or pointers would be appreciated. thanks

plazaman

what equipment do you currently have? or atleast plan to buy?

What the competition like? Do they have a shop or mobile? In order to charge an hourly, you need to know all your overhead expenses. Fairly simple to calculate the overhead (im still trying to work on mine) but a bit harder to calculate the profit margin. Over head includes rent, insurance, WC, phone, advertising, vehicle, gas, and any other expenses related to it. Once you have the overhead down... 52 weeks, figure 5 working days a week= 260 working days x 8 hours per day = 2080 hours, add profit to overhead and divide by 2080 = your hourly rate. I would say inshop have differnt rates from mobile. but..... remember, it unlikely that you will be blasting 5 days a week 8 hours a day.


check this site out

http://usedsandblastandaircompressors.com/


usually have pretty good deals on sandblasting equipment, blast rooms, dust collectors... etc..

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MEDIA MAN

This is not expert advice only my 2 cents.
Pricing will vary. One large variable is the market you are in. Another is the type of job. Example, a corporation is more likely going to pay you what you are worth (most of the time). They set aside budget money for maintenance work. The weekend warrior car restorer is probrably going to shop around for the lowest price he/she can find. There will always be someone cheaper. Just remember you went into business for yourself to make money not loose money; so bid a little on the high side. There are usually unforeseen obsticles or hurdles that will enevitably come about on any given job. The key is to sell yourself as to why you are better than your comp. Service and delivering on time play a big factor. Be upfront about your charges.

As for an hourly rate that will vary from business to business because everyones overhead is different even though we share many of the same expenses. Expect to go through about 1000#'s of slag per hour. Yes some jobs will be less and others more. No 2 blast jobs are the same. I pay about $.10 per pound for slag. I think the average is about $.08 to $.10 per pound. So to start with that's $100 per hr on media alone. My compressor uses 2 -2.5 gallons of fuel per hour. Diesel fuel, damn near $5/gal = $10-$12.50/hr. Now you have to factor in your overhead, wages, mileage, workmans comp., insurance, profit and so forth. I set an hourly rate but usually it is more of a target. I know I need this much per hour but alot is based on the job. Rental equipment, enclosing the blast site, clean up and so on. If you have to go 150 miles or so to do 1 car tell them you will have a mileage and mobilization charge for just one but if they can get you 4 or 5 cars you'll knock off the those charges. Everyone's happy. Your trip is worth while and the customer feels he got a good deal because he feels he got you to come down on your price.

I don't know the circumstances that surround you but if you are mostly mobile I would not worry about a blast room. What I see a lot of people are using is a pole type steel building, leaving the overhead doors open and circulating the air and good lighting. Usually these business' on the edge of the town/city. Again some places are more strict on this type of practice than others. I have not had any problems but then I am in the country and have 40 acres. When poeple bring me things I blast outside behind my barn. If I was to build a building which is in my future plans I would put overhead doors on both ends so you can drive in, unload, blast, hook up again and drive out.

As for on the site clean up that usually depends on the job again. If you will be blasting in the same area for 1 week the media is going to accumulate yes. Clean it up but charge for it. If Joe's auto body and paint wants you to come over Saturday and blast a frame, hood and 2 doors generally they have you do it behind the shop and don't worry about the mess. Just make sure they understand it is loud and very messy upfront. If they don't want to worry about the mess and clean up, if it is something they can bring to you that is what they most likely will do. I don't want to sound like I don't care I do. Always abide by local laws and regulations. I do things the way I do because the state already aproached me about a week after I registered as a business, inquireing on how I dispose of my waste. I told them I hauled it out. I asked him to send me any information he had in relation to what I do and his response was he didn't have any. So I thought why did you even bother calling me.

I don't know if this was any help, but everyone charges different for many reasons. All you can do really is set a target rate because no 2 jobs are the same. Again some jobs you're up against 2 layers of coatings. The next might be 4 to five layers. Always test first. Test in several spots. Sometimes repair work has been done and it may only have 2 layers (primer and top coat) while the rest might have 3 or 4 layers because its been painted over before. Quality and type of coatings matter too. I blasted coal tar on 100ft long kilns in a cement plant that was 1/4" thick. New coatings (if applied properly) are harder to remove than 30 yr old weatherd coatings. I like to give my lecture about the above mentioned and give my customer a range for each job. Best case (everything goes smooth) $700; Worst case (heavy rust, heavy grease, many layers...) $1200. Or level of blast required. Example; routine preventative maintenance requires only a brush-off blast $300 but if they what white metal no rust no mill scale $700 (same piece).

zeke1

[quote=plazaman;428938]what equipment do you currently have? or atleast plan to buy?

What the competition like? Do they have a shop or mobile? In order to charge an hourly, you need to know all your overhead expenses. Fairly simple to calculate the overhead (im still trying to work on mine) but a bit harder to calculate the profit margin. Over head includes rent, insurance, WC, phone, advertising, vehicle, gas, and any other expenses related to it. Once you have the overhead down... 52 weeks, figure 5 working days a week= 260 working days x 8 hours per day = 2080 hours, add profit to overhead and divide by 2080 = your hourly rate. I would say inshop have differnt rates from mobile. but..... remember, it unlikely that you will be blasting 5 days a week 8 hours a day.

I have a old LeRoy 160, 300#, 400# and 600# clemco with dead man valves, 30hp screw compressor, air dryer, after cooler, water seperators, regulators, blast cabinet, free air pump, fresh air filters, helmets etc.

My main problem is that the compressor/ dryier etc, are 460 three phaze so I can't blast in just any building it needs to be commercial for the electicity.

plazaman

[QUOTE=zeke1;429172]wow, lots of equipment there. not sure how i can help you there, so your saying that building must be registered as a commercial location before they send that power there? Makes sense. Consider selling/swapping equipment?


what are your plans, to go mobile, shop, or both? and pics of the equipment?

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zeke1

I'm not looking for "experts" in my experience the people that "do" know more than the ones that "think" there experts, so any advise is appreciated.
In my area there are some blasting companies, I have used some in the past and I don't consider them good, some charge way too much others do crappy work, and some blast your stuff when they feel like it, so I feel there is deffinate room for me, I already have several clients lined up one is a powder coat company and they blast almost everything first, second I want to do media blasting (plastic/ walnut/ garnet/ starblast) there is nobody in my area doing any of this and I already have three restoration shops willing to send me there work rather than shipping them out of town, so while I can do portable I would rather try to do mostly inshop.

I looked into getting a place out side of town (pole barn/ farm) but they don't have the electrical I need for my other equipment, most farms in this area are only single phaze 240 so I need a industrial building with three phaze 600, I do have access to a farm for out door blasting of any big jobs if needed but I would like to try to keep everything in one building if possible but building in this area 2000 to 3000 sq ft cost $2000 to $3500 a month, a hard pill to swollow for me at the moment but it's looking like the only way.

It has helped alot and while I haven't done a cost study yet ( hard to since I don't have a shop yet) I don't know what most of the sandblasters in my area are charging per hour but I do know the closest media blasters (2 to 3 hours away) are charging $100 per hour for car bodies etc, I have been doing small blasting jobs and it seems to work out to $80 to $100 an hour also but bigger jobs might be quite different, could anyone tell me roughly what you charge for straight sandblasting per hour? thanks

zeke1

[quote=plazaman;429178]it's not so much that the building must be registered commercial but to run a 600 volt three phaze line to a NON commercial area is cost prohibative, they need to run the lines from the nearest 600 three phaze pole and that could be just around the corner or miles and miles away and either way it's very expensive, as for swaping equipment one of the problems is you can't get 30 hp or bigger compressors that aren't 230/460 three phaze and I would like to get a bigger one and I haven't even wired this one up yet, I would like to do both mobile and inshop but with the majority being done in shop.