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MEDIA MAN

As I mentioned I am a new member and have never use a forum before. If anyone has any advise please let me know.
I am an "Abrasive Media Blaster" I currently run two pots. One is for my coarse media and the other is a soda pot. I am a mobile unit and run many media types. Most often used media is slag, crushed glass (love crushed glass) then soda (expensive to run).
I look forward to giving and sharing advice and watching the posts. I joined after reading several posts and could relate to all of them. Looks like most of us who are in this line of work have at one time or another gone through a lot of the same incidents. I had to laugh at some of them because they hit home with me.
So long for now.

Cole

Welcome to the site!

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plazaman

Welcome to the site. Please post pics of your setup.

COuld you tell me about your soda setup? What equipment are you running? How are you dealing with the moisture issue?

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BulldogMedia

Welcome,
I use a lot of crushed glass also and love the results. What pots are you using?

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MEDIA MAN

Well this is my set up. Truck is awfully dirty. The compressor is a Sullivan Pallatek, diesel 90hp 210 cfm. It is set up with an electric deadman. I am fitted with a 5/16 (#5) long venture nozzle. I have 100ft of blast hose. I also have a 100# Empire pot that I do not have pictured. I have it down in my barn where I store my media.
As for moisture, the only issues I have is that up here is when the temps are in the 20's or lower our pots end up freezing. Of coarse I have the moisture seperator on the compressor and the air coolers mounted on the back. The last day I blasted it was around 18 degrees with about a 10 mph wind. I was able to get about 4hrs in before I froze up. Probrably for the best - It started to snow. I was blasting the cab of a '41 Dodge P.U.
I here a lot of talk about having small pots (100#). People need to understand when you are a 1 man show a 100# pot is heavy. The hose is heavy and the media is heavy. 10 hrs of that is pretty tireing! Although I am looking for 300# pot. Filling the 100# pot gets to be a hasstle on all day jobs.
When using the 100# empire pot I average about 20 between fills. Some days more some days less. The soda pot I have I get about 40 min. between fills.
I am curiouse to know what others are getting for jobs in other areas of the country. Cost of fuel and freight is rediculous!

Not sure if the pictures will show up or not. I have not done this before.

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plazaman

hey do you have any shots of your piping & coolers? Im curious how you are dealing with the moisture. I am having issues with my setup.

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MEDIA MAN

Here are the pics of my set up. The air enters via the intake, exits out the sump to the coolers then up to the moisture separator and into the pot.
What issues are you having? I just talked to Sullivan Palatek today about a problem I was having - thinking it was moisture related. Sounds like what I am experiencing is not moisture related.

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MEDIA MAN

Here are pics of the pot. Was this any help?

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plazaman

mediaman, thanks for the pics.

question, on the 3rd pic above, im assuming thats your moisture separator? Im assuming its place in the rear of the compressor between the radiator & sheet metal? Does the moisture separator has its separate drain (float drain) at the bottom or all liquids removed by the trap on the pot or is the 1 on the post a secondary drain?

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MEDIA MAN

Plazaman,
You are right that is the moisture seperator. It is actually located in the front of the compressor. It sits right behind the pot in the engine/compressor compartment. It is the very last step the air passes before entering the pot. When the air leaves the sump it travels up and to the rear of the unit and enters the coolers then back into the engine compartment through piping along the bottom of the unit. Directly after the coolers there is a ball valve to let moisture out and another ball valve directly under the moisture seperator. So, in this one stretch there are 2 ball valves to release the moisture. 1st - in the back of the unit immediatly after the air leaves the coolers and the 2nd is in the front of the unit under the moisture seperator. The way I control these is I have them fully open when I store the unit and when I warm up the unit. When I reach about 140 deg. I turn the unit to "run". Now air is pouring out of these valves. I have to go to each of them and fully close it then crack them about 1/4 open. Under a heavy laod you can just watch the moisture come out. You can see the red handle to the ball valve under the seperator if you look at the pic with the front veiw of my pot. When it is down like that it is fully open. The moisture seperator sits behind the sheetmetal where you can see the piping come out of the units body on the right hand side of the same pic.

firemike

Welcome Media Guy!

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plazaman

mediaman - after the aftercooler & and after the moisture separators, you actually have ball valves instead of auto dump float drains? I would tend to think by having ball valves open would use more air.


does the pot iself has its own water trap? If so, how often or how much water comes out of it? Basically, what i am trying to get at here is how effective is this setup for moisture removal.


Sorry for all the questions

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plazaman

Mediaman- so you have a ballvalve after the aftercoolers and after the moisture separators? Wouldnt it be better to use float drains since opening the valves slightly will use more air?


Does you pot have a separator onboard? (im pretty sure it does) how often/much water makes it way over there? What i am trying to get at is how effective this setup in removing moisture.

you mentioned about turning the unit the unit to run position at 140. thats engine temp correct?

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MEDIA MAN

Plazaman,

Correct, 140 deg. is engine temp. On the pot there is only moisture/particle filter very similar as to what you would put on a air compressor you might keep in a garage. As for the two ball valves under the unit - with them open 1/4 turn the compressor does not work any harder. It runs at an idol. And supplies the pot with 125psi at all times even under a load. They are very crucial to my set up because they do need to be monitored all the time when I am blasting below 32 deg.(ambiant temp). If I could not manually adjust them I would be screwed because of all the moister they remove. Sometimes the valve after the coolers will start to freeze so I will have to go over and open it full to blow out the ice starting to form. I generally can tell ice is forming because my compressor will not idle up when suppling air. The valve at the seperator I really don't have a lot of trouble with. Mainly it is the one after the coolers I need to watch. This is were most of the moisture is removed.
This way may use a little more air but it is the air itself that is removing the moisture by forcing it out these valves.

I have a question(s) for you. I read in an earlier post/reply - I think by you, about blasting a pool. Am I correct? What do you think of pools! I have not done one but heard they can be tough. Are they? What was the approx. surface area and about how long did it take? I believe yousaid you used slag.

plazaman

Mediaman, another blaster told me when ice starts to form, turn off the coolers. they have a switch on them correct? not sure if that will work, but i guess its worth a try. have you ever had moisture issues? what was the hottest temp. you ever blasted in? your compressor is a 150 psi unit correct? do you know your inlet psi on your pot? i want to know how much psi loss there is in the system and piping.


Blasting the pool with 12/40 coal slag was my first blasting job ever. Never used the pot before. I did have some troubles at the begining. My pot is capable of blasting all types of media from soda to slag. What i knew but forgot about was i had to replace the sleeve in my metering valve to a slotted sleeve. The stock sleeve is only used for soda and walnut .etc. the smaller stuff. we spent a few hours playing with it until we decided to tear it down and replace. i have differntial pressure on the pot, we started to mess with that, those first few hours was a nightmare.

but, it had nothing to do with the pool. Once the equipment was tuned right and sleeved changed, everything went perfect. i forgot the approx surface area, but we were blasting approx 1.5 sq. in about a min. it goes fast. slag is a very dusty media, so we blasted wet, which created another problem. CLEANUP was a bitch. the actually blast process isnt hard at all. soda is much more difficult to blast in my opionion. i could never get my soda to work right. ive only used my rig for 3 times, 1 slag and 2 soda, didnt work out well for the soda.

hardest part in blasting slag wet is the cleanup.

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MEDIA MAN

Plazaman

Thanks for the insight on pools I'm sure they are the same as any other blast job. Some go smooth while others are a headache. I have quit giving quotes because in media blasting. Every job is different and unique. I now charge by the hour because they are all different. I do give estimates to contractors though but I bid high.

Now on to your inquiree. As far as I know I can not switch off my coolers. I believe thay don't have there own fans. They are cooled by the engine fan because they are mounted directly in front of it. The fan draws air over the fins of the cooler radiator. I have not had any moisture problems as far as having wet media or water in my pot or out the nozzle. I have left soda in the pot and it will clump together. Infact I have a full pot of soda I forgot to get out before I quit on Wednesday. Customer wanted a tow bar for a ski-boat blasted. The primer for the powder coating was worse than heavy mill-scale. Filled the pot with soda - wrong Idea. Took me 2.5 hrs with crushed glass. It was abour 7'w X 5'h and about 8" wide on average. Similar to a roll-bar for a pick-up.
The hottest I have blasted. I know it has been in the 90's. Here the summers are typically 80's to 90's on most afternoons. Reaching 100 or more often.
Yes, my unit is a 150psi unit. As for the inlet pressure. The guage on the inlet reads 150psi Pressure only drops initially but quicky re-pressurizes to 150 the entire time I blast. Having the ball valves crack does not seem to impair the pots performance. Most of the time I use soda I use my other pot. This one I can control the pressure on the outlet vs. my soda pot. The only way I can control my soda pot is with the compressor itself. I have to lower the compressor's output.
I have been told that if you are capable of running 150psi you should be blasting at a certain percentage less then max. to leave room for any auxillary stuff like airconditioned hoods/helmets or breathing filters. Something like leaving 25% reserve. I do not worry though because I don't wear a helmet or hood. I use a 3m full face respirator with changable filters and tear away lens'. mask. About a $300 mask. I have two.

What issues do you have with moisture. Sound to me like you may be experiencing what was happening to me. Do you have water coming out the nozzle. If you are having moisture issues, you would have water at the nozzle. I thought I was having moisture problems and called Sullivan Palatek. We fiqure that it is not moisture... it is more likely a valve on the pressure regulator on the compressor itself. What I was experiencing was a drop in pressure (cfm I guess) at the nozzle, my pot pressure falling to 50psi when tripping the deadman and my motor not idleing up to charge up the compressor. This stuck/faulty valve is fooling the compressor into thinking it is supplying enough compressed air when in fact its not. If you haven't called your mfg. I would. The guy I talked to was determined to help me.

Sorry these reply's are so long.

plazaman

Mediaman

Im not sure if Sodaworks changed the setup of the coolers, but when i was looking for cooling equipment for my rig, they were selling me units that were switched & fused. Another blaster with the soda works pot told me he sometimes switches his coolers off. Im not sure if they changed the design on yours. I do notice that your cases are different from the other setups from sodaworks i seen.

I dont think my compressor has any issues. I always get discharge pressue of 125 psi. My pot is always pressureized. i mentioned before i only had 3 blasting experiences , besides the pratices at home. 1 Slag, and 2 soda jobs. Slag went well besides the initial trouble i had in the begining. But that was mostly because i didnt understand the equipment. The 2nd attempt was a soda job, paint removal from brick. I ended up gouging the brick with soda. I dont know how they say soda doesnt harm, it very well gouged the brick and i couldnt complete the job. On that particular, we didnt regulate the pressure at all. I didnt even know how to do it. 3rd was paint removal from brick. This time everything was going well, paint was being removed (i blasted at full pressure, but needed to lower psi again, which i didnt. didnt cause too much damage to the bricks. We blasted wet on this project, actually all projects we blast wet. But i tried out my new WIN-4 nozzle. By lunch time we noticed production slowed down considerably. I opened up the nozzle, i found my media to be wet. I know in the win nozzle, water doesnt mix with media, leaving me to believe its a moisture related issue.

That particuar job could have been a sucess if i didnt have the moisture issue and turned the psi down a bit.

My trap on the blast pot lets more water out than my aftercooler/separator setup. But i think i know why, my aftercooler is mounted infront of the compressor, where the hot engine air is blowing onto the aftercooler (i have a 12v fan on my aftercooler) And i also think i have a faulty float drain, i kinda messed with it before installation. What do you think?


LoL sorry for all these long replies. Its been very frustrating process from the begining. Everything from choosing the pot, to the compressor, to the air treatments. Everything here is basically trial and error since i put togther the whole setup myself, vs buying a complete setup from a company like sodaworks. Its so frustrating going to site, trying to blast, and have to packup and leave because its not working right.

What size piping is your compressor piped with? from sump to cooler, to separator, to pot? Im using 3/4" do you think thats enough?

Ive been debating a couple of options here to solve my moisture issue
1) Move my aftercooler to the rear of the compressor so cool air can be blown onto the fins and replace float drain

2) Move aftercooler and add a single tower dessicant dryer, but the towers are so tall . I kinda want to place the unit in my garage. Only place might be the tongue, but it weights like 360 lbs when filled.

3) I am looking into the option of adding a refrigerated/reheated dryer my with current aftercooler setup

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MEDIA MAN

Plazaman,

I don't mind the questions at all. I only hope that I can provide some info that is usefull. I call the guy I bought my equipment from all the time. He's been doing it since '99 and seems to have made a very, very good living at it. His wife did not have to work. She does now but only because she wanted to do something. She also works for herself.

-Yes my coolers do look different and they are different from the way the rig is initially set up. the guy I bought it from made the little boxes from sheet metal and installed them between the coolers and the compressor housing. He did it to his and says they perform better on his this way. It draws the air more directly over the radiator fins.

-I would check into moving the after cooler and probrably add another one. I have two coolers mounted side by side on my unit. Many distrubuters I see on the net have two. Did your set up come as it is now or did you add the cooler? Also I would check the drain. I am not familiar with your set up but I don't think I'd use the float style drains. But then I am unfamiliar with them and like to be able to control them manually. If I am right they don't drain until there is a certain amount of water to to raise the float and then only drain until the float closes again. Where-as a ball valve continues to release moisture and air even when the deadman is not operating. I would think constant draining of the water is needed. I would think a float drain may close if your not operating causing moisture to enter the lines upon start up.
-You mentioned that the trap on your pot releases more water than your cooler and seperator. I never have had any water out mine. Do you leave the trap on the pot cracked as you blast? I let a fair amount of air flow out mine and check the amount of air flowing everytime I pressurize the pot folowing filling the pot. I just throw my hand under it to make sure steady air is flowing out before I go back to the nozzle. Also there is a relief valve after it that I can adjust to make sure it is flushing out any moisture. I also leave that cracked and check it everytime I check the trap.
-If it was me I don't think I would spend the money on buying any equipment to reconfigure your set up. Sounds like you have all the necessary parts. I would have it all checked out to ensure everything is working correctly. I would consider adding another cooler before buing the towers. This is only my opinion - I am no expert though! I just think that you have basically the same set up as most of us. Something small is the problem. Its just a matter of narrowing it down. Fun huh! Sounds like you have been trying to solve this for awhile. Must be aggrivating.
-I went out and checked my piping. It is 1-1/4 OD all around.

Media Man

MEDIA MAN

Plazaman,
I was going to write in the last post but forgot. All the blasting I've done I have not used my water induction nozzle. No need for it. I would not use it. They are good if you are inside a plant where contaminates/particles can not be in the air. Just make your customers aware of the dust and mess it leaves. I put a disclaimer in my proposals that I am only responsible for minor clean up. I state in my proposals that If I am to remove all the mess, clean up is Invoiced at $65.00/hr. for my time! I do not include clean up as part of my service.

Media Man

plazaman

Mediaman -

Based on those facts i mentioned before, do you think its a moisture related issue? My aftercooler is capable of cooling 400 cfm of air, your coolers are doing 185 each. They are smaller than what i have. 185+185=370, but maybe its better to have 2 than to have 1 large cooler. I know how much they are capable of flowing for a fact since ive been researching my purchase. I kinda thought about adding a second aftercooler, but if i were to add 2 to the rear, i wouldnt have any access for my air filter. Do you have access to your airfilters in the rear with the 2 coolers mounted there? This is another reason why i think your setup has 2 instead of 1 larger on. I could be wrong on this on. My setup orginally was a tow behind compressor. I didnt like that idea of putting my huge 420 lbs in the back of my pickup everytime i wanted to blast so i mounted the compressor on a 12' tandem axle trailer with a side gate so i could roll the pot up on the ramp. You are right, the float drain only releases when theres enough water to raise the float, its located under my cyclonic separator. Thats what they sold me with the setup, so i went with it. I do leave the trap on the pot slightly open while blasting. DO you have any pics of that relief after the trap? Whats the purpose of that? Yes i have been trying to solve this for a long long time. Hey, you never know, it could be something small as the float drain. So you are using 1 1/4" OD piping all around from the sump? Im guess its 1" ID correct? My compressor has 1" from the sump then its splits into 2 3/4" at the y outlet. THen i go from 3/4" into the aftercooler and 1.5" out of the aftercooler to the separator. Do you think i should be using larger piping?

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