Deck Is Done

gran_national

For those who remember, I was blasting a deck this weekend. It was my first blasting job. Besides being 96 degrees in the shade, it went pretty good. I'm out of shape, so it kept me busy in that heat and I lost 3lbs in the process. I used 60-100 crushed glass (thanks MEDIA MAN) on a 12' X 20' wooden deck and lattice work. The deck is pretty old as you'll see in the pictures, but the overall look turned out great. The before and after pictures don't really do it justice. Before, it had a grayish, greenish (think fungus) look to it. Now it has almost a pressure treated, new look as you'd expect. I'll try to post some stats that I can think of and you experienced guys can tell me if I'm on target or if I need to change some things.

Media:

I used 60-100 crushed glass at the recommendation of MEDIA MAN. I ordered 700lbs just to be sure. I have 300lbs left over in unopened bags and probably another 50-75lbs still left in the pot. Total, I'd say I used a little over 300lbs on the deck surface and the surrounding lattice work. I closed the valve on the bottom of the pot and then backed it off about 3 turns. About half way through, I backed it open about 2 more turns. I think it went a little slow, but I didn't use the 500lbs of media I thought I might.

Time:

I got to the house around 10:00AM. I taped up the doors and windows first. I had 2 of everything except for just 1 pot which is a 3.5 cu/ft. Schmidt pot. Just unloading the truck took 15 minutes which won't be necessary again. I took 2 of everything because I had it and just in case something broke or didn't work, I had a backup. Those who've been reading my posts know why I have 2 of everything. Anyway, I got everything up and running around 11:00 and would blast in about 1 hour intervals before the heat and an aching neck got to me. I was looking down the whole time. I cooled off and got something to drink for about 5-10 minutes and went back to blasting. I finished blasting about 2:50 which would be about 3 hours of straight blasting when you figure in breaks. The heat was BAD! Packing up took about an hour and cleanup was about 20 minutes because I just swept the glass through the cracks of the deck and the glass realy only accumulated on a 5' X 10' section of brick walkway. That was one of my main concerns, what if I have glass laying all over the place, but it's like fine sand and you really don't notice it that much.

Money:

Total on the glass was $207.76 for 700lbs of media. Divided by 14 bags, that comes to $14.84 a bag. I used 8 bags (some still left in the pot though) which comes to $118.72 worth of glass used. The compressor was $80 to rent, plus I have to fill it back up with off-road diesel (roughly 3 gal. at $4.50/gal for off-road. Figure in $20 in gas for my truck for running around. That comes to a grand total of $232.22 for EVERYTHING. Obviously, renting the compressor kills profit margin, but I don't have $5,000 to drop on a compressor right now, nor do I want to make that commitment in case this doesn't work out.

Questions:

1. Is it normal that something like a 3 inch blue flame was coming out the end of the nozzle?

2. Is there an easy, fast way to take the media you don't use that's still in the pot and get it out so you're not lifting 100 extra pounds around when unloading the pot?

3. This isn't so much a question as an observation that you all might know. When I would hit the deadman, the glass would sputter out, then die off. I'd wait anywhere from 20 seconds to 1 minute before it would start to come out and I could then blast normally. Is this wait normal? Yesterday was miserably hot. I had the moisture seperator open slightly, but do you think maybe I was getting moisture in the pot? I know killzone recommended getting another mositure sep. on there.

Obeservations:

1. BLASTING IS HARDER THAN I REMEMBER!

2. The cool air unit on the helmet was a life saver. I never even thought about the heat when I was under the helmet and I had on long pants and a long sleeved shirt. Just the aching neck When I first picked up the compressor, it had one outlet with the "glad hands" or whatever you call them, and one with just a threaded pipe. The guy from the rental place was happy to put another one on. I told him I'd be in trouble if I didn't have air for my helmet. It didn't cross my mind until I started wearing the helmet how big of a deal that fresh air is on hot days especially.

3. Reading previous posts of what you guys were charging, I thought "wow, that's a lot for what they're doing!" Now, after getting back into it, I realize "WOW, they're right on for the work involved!" I told my wife that I will NOT feel bad if someone tells me "you're overpriced" because It's a dirty, hot, messy job that 99% of people wouldn't and couldn't do. My dad said he spent a week stripping and sanding his deck by hand and I did one that's larger in around 3 hours.

4. I thought about pricing and thought maybe I could charge the end customer for time and materials and then tell them, say, $60/hr on top of that. That way, you've got time and materials covered and you're making decent money.

If you've waded through this wordy post this far, thanks. In general, I think it went well and the main things I've taken away from my first time are not to worry about whether or not you're charging too much money in the future, keep yourself cool and learn from your misakes. I'll try to get some pictures up soon, but not today. I work a 40 hr/wk IT job behind a computer, so I've already used up my "weekend computer time" on this post

MALCO.New.York

We want pictures.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

joeslob

Congrats on a job well done!

I wouldn't worry about the rental price of a compressor. Until you're using it a couple times each week, it doesn't make sense to put down that much money for the purchase. Just work the rental into the cost of the job and don't think too much about it. Plus renting gives you time to search for a good deal on a compressor instead of buying the first one you see.

The main thing is to do a good job, keep the customer happy and get your name out there. Pretty soon you'll have people looking for you instead of the other way around.

Crank

I look foward to seeing the pictures.

As to your questions, are you sure it was a flame comeing out of your nozzle or could it have been the media/air mixture. The only way that I know of to remove the media is to remove the mixing chamber from the bottom of the pot with a pipe wrench and then the media will pour right out. Finally, as to the media delay, I believe it has to do with your deadman being air controled. I use to use a schmitt pot and it did the same thing (very annoying). I now have a pot with an electric deadman and the media comes out almost immediatly. I hope this helps.

Crank

gran_national

I'll probably post them this evening.

MEDIA MAN

gran national

Congrats to you on the blast job. Sounds like it went well. Blasting can really beat the crap out of a person. Especially in the heat.

As for your questions:
1)The blue flame could be moisture. It may not necessarily be moisture from the compressed air. My guess is it is cool air produced by the compressor turning to moisture as it hits the ambient air. There should be no flames!
2) The easiest way to empty your pot is to close off the choke valve. This regulates the amount of air that goes into the pot and how much goes to the metering valve. Closing the valve will send the media out in high volume through the hose and out the nozzle as if the pot was puking when you depress the deadman. You will need a container to collect the media in.
3) My experience is Yes this is normal on pots that do not stay constantly pressurized. Your pot has a combo valve on it which lets the pot depressurize when you let off the deadman. I personally like and use a constant pressurized pot. Also I like the electric deadman over the pnuematic. I get better and quicker response. No sputtering. Immediate media on start up an immediate stopping.
As for your pricing, remember that it is a convenience to your customer to have you come to them. That is worth something. Not every blaster is portable. Set up and teardown sucks. Lugging all the heavy equipment is hard work, especially in the heat.
So whats next? Got anything to blast?

thom

Be careful on the T&M stuff, you can get burned.

You drive out to look at the job, and negotiate a deal.
You load up your equipment at home
You drive to the media supplier and load up.
You load up your truck, drive to the rental place and load up again
You drive to the job,

Unload, blast, clean-up reload.

You drive back to the rental store and unload
You drive back home and unload an put the stuff away.

Your customer expects to pay for that "unload, blast, clean-up-reload" part.

joeslob

A friend of mine in sales I spoke to said that he charges a mobilization fee. Which is a set fee every time a truck goes to a job. The further away the job is, the higher the fee. He is in a different business, but same process.

The most important thing is to get something in writing BEFORE you do any work. That way there won't be any assumptions on the customers part when it comes time to pay the bill.




oh yeah and.........PICS PICS PICS

gran_national

Sorry, but no pics yet. They should be up tonight. While I was at the rental store dropping off the compressor, he asked for a meter reading and it looks like I blasted for exactly 2.7 hours. When I went in on Sat. to pick it up, he remembered me and told me he has a friend who needs some stuff blasted, so that may be some more business. I just found out my sister-in-law's uncle blasts and apparently he's "so busy he can't keep up". I thought about approaching him to see if I can get some of his overflow, but it's his career and he may get sensetive about it, I don't know, so that one is touchy.

thom, the T&M thing is worrying me a little bit. I automatically have to overcharge by $95 ($80 for compressor and $15ish for gas), just to cover, but I can't bring myself to commit to a $5000 compressor.

MEDIA MAN

gran national

Curiouse to know, what did Mom think of the deck once it was finished. I supose you get to stain it now too - ha ha

gran_national

Well, I can read her pretty well and she was happy. It wasn't a "oh, that's nice" because I'm her son type of thing, I know she was genuinely impressed as I was and several other people who saw it.

Sealing is tonight, and I'll probably do some caulking between the siding and deck.

gran_national

Pictures don't quite do it justice, but the last one just above this text is about the best looking. You need to look at my other thread with the before pictures in to really compare.

MALCO.New.York

Quite bright!!!! The wood is suffering though. Good job.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

killzoneq2

Pic did well enough justice... Great job!!! Yes with the pneumatic dead man, there is a several second pause before the pressure builds up in the pot to get the sand moving. I have seen electric deadmans in action and WOW is the start up and shut off immediate!!!

Just remember every time you push that deadman, a sprits of water/moisture shoots into the blast pot potentially causing moisture build up and feeding problems. I recommend that when you blast without an added moisture trap, you leave the built in moisture trap handle open just a bit all the time, just enough where you hear the air moving out and can see water dripping out even during sand blasting. When running my system, I blast with the moisture relief screw open about a turn letting the air and water escape. Loosing that little bit of air will not hurt your blasting pressure to the point you will notice loss in nozzle pressure.

How was the profile of the wood??Was it a bit fuzzy or Soft feeling?

Great Job!!

gran_national

MALCO is right, the wood is old and suffering, but the blasting did take off the nasty looking layer. She was considering a whole new deck and has now decided to put that off for a few more years since it turned out the way it did after blasting.

Killzone, as you mentioned, I did blast with the moisture seperator slightly open. When I first fired it up, there was a drop or 2 coming out so I guess it was doing it's job. You had recommended getting another moisture seperator which I will do, but probably not right away. I know, I know, I need it right away, but it's not in the finances right now. The link you sent me for one was around $200...I need to take a few more jobs before I can afford one of those. The profile of the wood was quite nice. I specifically remember feeling the hand railing on the top of the lattice work after I blasted and it felt a little rough, but not too bad.

My biggest fear was accidentally etching her windows. How easy is that to do by accident? That was SUCH a pain blasting around the tarp around the window.

I'm anxious to blast in sub 90degree weather and not blast the whole day looking at my feet! My neck really hurt! Anyway enough whining. I'd like to see more before and after pictures of other stuff that you guys have done. I think I've seen every picture on here already, so let's see some new stuff.

Crank

gran national

In regards to etching glass, it is better to be safe than sorry. I recently finnished blasting a log home that another contractor had started. He had etched every door and window in the front of the house. Most of the damage was due to carelessness, however, some of the damage was caused by media (crushed glass) bouncing off of adjacent surfaces and slightly pitting the nearby glass. That was a lesson that I was glad I did not learn the hard way. If you use precautions like it sounds like you did, then you should have no problems.

Your deck looked great.

gran_national

Crank, what did you use on the home, what psi did you shoot at, what nozzle size, basically, what were the details on blasting the log home?

Crank

gran national, I used crushed glass on most of the house. Around the gutters and inside the window trim, I used cob. It was a pain going from one media to another, so I may go back to only using cob. I was using a #5 nozzle at 78 psi. I also had a large deck to do and it killed my neck as you found out.

gran_national

Can I ask how you charged for the job and how much would it have been for just the deck? How big was the deck? I realize some people don't want to discuss finances and profit, so if that's something you're not comfortable with, that's fine.

Crank

gran national

Currently, I am subbing from another contractor. He puts a price on the job and I decide if I want to take it. I usually average $70-$90/hr. (labor) while on the site. That is for me and my helper. I am currently working on my own priceing and will share as I progress. I hear that for log homes you can get $1.70 - $3.00/sq.ft. A lot depeds on the location and how hard it is to access the site. I did not measure the deck, but the guy who stained it said it was between 500 - 600 sq. ft.