Blasting Interior Painted Bricks - Commercial Space

plazaman

Today i visted a site where the clients want wooden beams blasted clean along with the painted brick walls inside a commercial space located in a very high end strip mail. imagine, i paid 5 bucks to park my car for 30 mins! anyway, the job has approx 1200 sq.ft of painted bricks, that needs to be blasted, and about 1800 sq.ft of wooden beams.


Difficulties:

interior blasting with tenant next door, i know its going to get loud in there!
compressor will be far away, hose has to be ran from the roof into the space, approx 250-300 feet away.

High ceilings 16'+ ceilings

possibly night work!

clean up, stuff has to be moved in bags down the elevator! no trucks accessible!

Im figuring in the range of 30k-40K

Im not even sure if the client would be willing to spend that amount, but wanted to know what you guys think?

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Westchester Remodeling Contractor
Hartsdale Remodeling Contractor
Ardsley Remodeling Contractor

Tin Cup

EVERY time I think I overbid something, I get the job, just DO NOT FLINCH, don't be the first to respond even if you think the customer is choaking on it. Let him do the talking, don't offer to change your price. if you price is negotiable, do that later.

Especially in blasting. that is still a niche trade. Expect to get paid for it. Access at night in a high end mall is usually a pain.

Tin Cup

plazaman

thanks for the tips. so you think i shouldnt respond yet?

__________________
Westchester Remodeling Contractor
Hartsdale Remodeling Contractor
Ardsley Remodeling Contractor

Tin Cup

get your written, professional quote to him asap, just don't apologize for the price if it comes up. who's your competition ? how'd they get your name/number, how busy are you, do you need this project, what type of residual work could you get for this customer, referrals, only you have those type of answers. read people, just don't lie, cheat, steal, to get work.

i'm just saying don't even hint that your price is negotiable to start or you've lost the negotiation. unless he's your uncle and knows you need the work!

i've discounted projects for many reasons, done some things for "no charge", but you've got some unique equipment, knowledge, experience, get paid for it.

Tin Cup

MEDIA MAN

Plazaman,
Tuff one!
Find out what it would cost to have a professional cleaning service clean up after you. Here is a chance to network with a company you may want to work for doing fire restorations. Show them if you help me out I'll help you out. Soda is going to be very messy in a upscale place such as this. Becareful of the ventilation. Seal up the space good. The soda dust is very fine and will infultrate everything and everywhere. It can find outlets that you'll never see. You may want to think about using a negative air system to remove some soda dust out. It could get tough to see. You probrably should talk to the stores that surround this space. Tell them what potentially may take place. Get their reaction. If possible I would seriously consider doing this after business hours. Get in, get out.
As for the price. You know your company best. In my territory it would be on the high side but you have to take into account the liabilities that go with where you have to blast. Not to discourage or scare you away. I don't want you to walk away from a job you may want, but I have to forewarn you. I would be suprised if someone did not complain because they can't breathe because of what there doing next door. I've seen it happen. People walking by can taste it on their lips. Now they call the epa in and shut you down for three days. Just because they don't know whats going on behind closed doors. If possible talk to mall managers. Can you place cones out to either re-route walking traffic or to keep them at a distance. A lot of times I use the cones and caution tape.
What's on the wooden beems that they want blasted. Remember this type of work you'll be moving quick, very quick. Usually moving so fast you cant keep up. Your biggest problem will be moving the scaffolding or ladder. Depending on what your removing you should be in the 300-800SqFt per hour range. You are not going to want to stay in one spot at all blasting wood or brick. Soda will raise the grain of the wood and can pit up the bricks. Blasting wood and brick is different than metals. On wood and brick I am usually 4'-5' away (the end of my nozzle) from the surface I'm blasting. I usually keep my psi at full throttle the entire time.
What is there intention when your done. Are they going to repaint the brick? Stain or paint the wood? Get samples! The bick should be washed with a vinegar/water solution. On one job I had to blast rust stains off a schools brick wall left from well water . I used soda around the windows and crushed glass on the remainder. Shortly after the weather got too cold and I could not get it washed. Now it turns white, from the soda film left behind. Paint won't adhere tightly if the film is not removed.
Talk with your distributor for your pot or compressor. Getting out that far you'll loose cfms. Every bend in your hose and if you are comming in from the ceiling now you are pushing the media up instead of horizontal with the ground.

Media Man

plazaman

media man,

I was thinking about using crushed glass on this project on the bricks and corn cob for the post & beams. I didnt consider soda since the rig isnt setup yet. That isnt a bad idea at all about the negative air system. the space is approx 4700 sq. ft with I think about 20' ceilings. (i mentioned 16 before, but i think its higher)

I dont think its possible to get a man lift in there, so i'll be using a roller tower scaffold.

Wooden beams are painted, they want the paint removed and left alone. THey want the natural wood look . maybe 1-2 layers of paint at most.

Bricks have amout 3-4 layers of paint, comes of pretty easy. THey want the bricks left as is.

I considered 2 options for this project, renting a 400 cfm compressor with 2 pots running.

Or, Rent a 375 cfm compressor and use a larger blast nozzle and i'll use my same pot, 3.5cu.

Its an open space, on 2 sides of the space has brick on the bottom about 3' high and brick to the ceiling about 20' high, along the wall, it has about 10-12 windows inbetween the bricks to be blasted. roughly 1200 sq.ft of blasted brick and 1800 sq of beams.

Another problem we will be facing is the windows, windows need to be protected since the windows sit on the bricks.

__________________
Westchester Remodeling Contractor
Hartsdale Remodeling Contractor
Ardsley Remodeling Contractor

MEDIA MAN

Sounds like you have a solid plan. I think you'll do fine. I think you may have to remove the paint in layers if at all poss. as to not raise the grain of the wood or eat into the brick. You'll know soon after starting as with most jobs. The glass is an excellent choice in my mind. I have found I like the finished profile of the crushed glass better than cob or soda. Cob will leave strands of wood called "fuzzies". I personally do not like these. If you have time try a sample with the glass, soda and cob. I use a 60-100 grit c. glass.
As for the windows you may want to designate 1 blaster to do around the windows with another helping. Some guys just hold a board or piece of heavy enough cardboard in the hand opposite the blast hand. Or you could cover them. I imagine these to be store front size windows so I'd have another possibly helping do this. Are the wood beams suspended or do they butt up to the ceiling? Are you going to have to mask off around the beams for blast over spray? Trust your instinct. If you feel the job is worth it to you go for it. If I felt comfortable I'd take it on. Honestly everytime I bid on these jobs I personally have reservations about them. But all said and done I usually feel pretty good. I have one that was awarded to me coming up. I fret about it all the time. Our city gives out money to local business' who want to restore the apperance. Called a renasaunce (spelling ?) project. I have to blast two historic building fronts. My concerns are that it is right downtown where everyone can see. Two sided though could hurt me (possibly be halted by the epa or something) but will be great advertising exposure. I am having the architect working on it do all testing before I will go in and start. We are not as heavily populated as you out there. Here I will stick out like a sore thumb. This is a job I just threw out a number, thinking it was too high. Guess what - I was awarded it. Leaves me to wonder should I have stayed away.

Media Man

plazaman

Client cannot pay the price. most would be 6k! i wouldnt even touch it for that price. its just too much liability.

media man, im not sure if i asked you this before, but have you ever removed paint from bricks? Soda or glass? distance?

__________________
Westchester Remodeling Contractor
Hartsdale Remodeling Contractor
Ardsley Remodeling Contractor

MEDIA MAN

plazaman,
No I have not removed paint from bricks. Thats why I thought you may have had to remove the paint in layers instead of going all the way through the first pass. Only cleaned unpainted brick. There are not too many buildings around here with painted brick. Everything is natural brick.
As for a media. I really like the crushed glass. About the only thing I use soda on is the fire restorations and autos. Even autos I have used the c. glass. 60-100 grit. As an example, since Nov. two of the last three autos I did were in c. glass. A '49 chev. pickup(c. glass), a '59 chev. pickup(c. glass) and a '69 Impala(soda). By weight I go through 3x's more slag then I do soda. I only started using the c. glass this last summer because another local blaster bragged it up. Now I am going to use it more in place of soda. In this region soda is too expensive for the private customer. For some reason private guys doing restorations want to sink all the money into the paint and very little into the prep. You can spend a lot on a nice paint job, but if its not prepped properly what good is the expensive paint when it falls off six months down the road. They don't see it that way.
As for distance on wood and brick cleaning, I am for the most part, about 3'
- 4' away with my nozzle tip as oposed to 18" - 24" when blasting metals.

Things have slowed down a little here. How about out east?

Media Man

gale

If it is any help, I have removed paint from brick with soda. You need to try a couple test patches, each painted surface is different. The customers were very happy with the finished clean brick. Test spots are key to making everyone happy, your customer will know exactly what the finished surface will look like, and you will know how hard to hit the brick.

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http://www.galeforcesodablasting.com/

MEDIA MAN

Gale,

How would you rate the removal of paint off brick? Is this something you like to do or something you don't like doing? I've only cleaned natural uncoated brick of stains, dirt, grafitty, things of this nature. I would say I like those types of jobs over striping a car. Good $$$ maker for me.

Media Man

gale

removal of paint from brick is on the top of my list of favorite projects, You can see the results and the surface will often times be the focal point of the house or building. Having a good understanding with the owner or project manager is the most important part.

__________________
http://www.galeforcesodablasting.com/

plazaman

gale how many layers and what psi do you use?

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Westchester Remodeling Contractor
Hartsdale Remodeling Contractor
Ardsley Remodeling Contractor

gale

I have dons several painted brick surfaces, but all were blasted @ approx 125-135psi. One place in particular had many/many coats of paint. The brick was soft and the morter was made with crushed oyster shells. The area where I blasted(3-rooms) was at one time the slave quarters of a farm house, so the brick was old too. The owner did not have any idea how much paint was on the brick, but some of it would not come off, it was white washed with a modern paint in several areas, and the brick would dig out before the paint wore off. That is why the test patches were key. I had made the owner aware of the problem prior to starting the entire job. The goal for those areas with problem paint was to blend the seams(painted and cleaned brick) to leave what he callad a patina. The area was turned into a wine cellar and library for the restored 3 story structure.

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