big builder

Hey Everyone,

Has anyone ever heard of a vapour barrier paint?

I hear they might be out there but I havn't been able to find any.

The paint store said that any two coats of oil based paint is a vapour barrier.........? Any truth to that?

Any advice is appreciated.

DeanV

To qualify as a vapor barrier it has to have a certain permeability rating. I do not know if all oil primers will meet this or not. I think BIN qualifies and Benjamin Moore makes a latex vapor barrier primer that I have used on new drywall. The funny thing is, is that it does not seem to have quite the hold out that I like to see in a primer.

nEighter

ICI has a Vapor Barrier primer.. know SW do as well. You could probably call the company up (which ever paint manufacturer) and find out what their product does or does not do. Good luck mate!

NAV

BIN is what you need.

Kgmz

Read one of my old posts below.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f18/wall-vapor-barrier-question-33616/


And where have you all been, this has been part of code for years.

NAV

Kgmz - this is the Painters Forum link not the tear down the wall and rebuild it with a plastic vapor barrier link. I assumed he was looking to cover pet odor or maybe some real nasty crap.

Kgmz

The part I was referring to in my previous post, was the PVA primer.

NAV

PVA primers are cheap primers used in new construction over new substrates. BIN is a shellac based primer that will work as a stain blocker, vapor barrier and has many more applications.

Unless you know something about PVA primers I don't. Here is the description from the ICI PVA primer data pages.

ICI PVA dexcription:

"A fast-drying interior primer-sealer which provides excellent
sealing and covering properties over bare drywall and plaster. It
minimizes the possibility that topcoats which have a sheen will
show noticeable variations over surfaces with different
porosities"

And For BIN:

well it wont let me cut and paste. but it really didn't say anything about being a "vapor barrier" in the data pages. it does say that it is used to "Seal in urine and other animal odors." and it is a stain blocker unlike PVA primers. I still think that BIN Shellac Based primer is the way to go.

Bertram33

PVA stands for Poly Vinyl Acetate, in other words its cheap glue, unlike 100% Acrlic Latex. PVA is a waste of time, it's supposed to do one thing and thats seal new drywall. It doesn't even do that, next time you use it spray the wall with a little water from a spray bottle. It will soak right into the wall through the PVA, just like your topcoat will. Using PVA is a waste of labor and causes you to use more of your topcoat, which equals wasted time and money. Stick with 100% Acrylic Primers.
Bin is good for one thing, knots in wood. It smells to high heaven and will knock you out if you don't have the proper mask. It drys so hard you have to topcoat it immediately or prime again. It spreads poorly and drys rough which makes your topcoat look bad and knocks it down a whole sheen level.

NAV

BIN is good for fire restoration, stain blocking, covering odors....lots of stuff.

Also, BIN is Shellac based, clean up with Alcohol, the odor might be strong but it wont get you high.

Kgmz

Well we still do not know what or why the original poster was asking about this.

I was assuming he needed a vapor barrier primer because of energy and building codes. You are all assuming something to cover up a smells, etc. He did ask about a vapor barrier paint, and I didn't see anything about smells, odors, etc. If I were asking this and I needed something to cover odors, stains, etc. Then thats what I would ask, not ask about vapor barriers.

So the only thing that meets these codes in a paint type product is PVA, not anything else. Whether we believe it works or not. I personally will not use it since there are better options for a vapor barrier.

TBFGhost

I use BIN on all my bare MDF....yeah, it does come out rough, but nothing a little 220 can't fix...

big builder

Hey everyone,

WOW thanks for all the response'

I still don't know what the best way to go is. I have been trying to talk to Glidden directly about their prime and seal paint but havn't been successful.

I have also contacted Znisser ( BIN) and KILZ to try and get the Perm ratings of their paints.

Yes, I am really only interested in the vapour retarding abilities........I guess that means their permability.

I don't know any more than that , other than I want the best paint/primer that will act as a vapour barrier/retarder.

We are trying to avoid stripping all the drywall down on this reno we are doing...... there is plastic barrier behind the drywall but it must have many leaks.

We have seen condensation and frost behind the insulation andin places in the attic.

I was thinking that since everything is drywalled , that if we could seal the paint, trim, and caulk everything it should help.

I will post when the paint people respond.

Kgmz

http://www.gliddenpro.com/products/O....jsp?brandid=8

Top of the page at the link above, Glidden Speedwall Interior PVA Latex Primer.

NAV

Dont use $8.00 a gallon primer as a Vapor barrier. Trust me, its not a good idea.

Burby

Alkyd Sealers - Sherwin-Williams

…Provides an interior vapor barrier (perm rating <1) …Paint Products & MSDS …

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big builder

Ok ,

So we are getting mixed info here.

Is PVA the way to go? KGMZ so so but Bertram says not.

Nav says use Bin......I don't know it's Perm rating yet. They havn't e-mailed back.

Burby says use an Alkyd Sealer......My thoughts are that Oil Based will seal better. I have always thought that latex is designed to breath where Alykd was not there for it would keep the moisture out of the wall and roof cavities better. I can't back this up with anything just my thought.

I still can't figure out which way to go.......I would like to know if BIN and KILZ have the same perm rating as the Sherwin Williams Alkyd Sealer.

What exactly does <1 mean? Do these rating get more detailed?

Basically I want the best paint on vapour retarder I can find.

NAV

Vapour Barrier. B-I-N has a "perm" rating of 0.4 perms. which means it is an exceptional vapor barrier. ("Perm" is a unit measuring the permeability of a film to moisture.) Sealing walls and ceiling with B-I-N keeps moisture vapour in the house, making it more comfortable in winter. It also keeps moisture from condensing on insulation in attics and between walls and from passing through walls to cause blistering and peeling of exterior paint.

Does that help?

big builder

Thank you.

That is a very good answer.

I think I will go with the BIN sealer. I already knew it was good stuff for sealing stains and odours. Just go to commen sense that it will seal stuff on the other side too.

Danahy

I'm thinkin' that u might be thinkin too much about this... The concept sounds neat, and if it does work, then ya Bin would be my guess...

Just wondering.... if the drywall already has vapour barrier, and a predetermined moisture problem, and u seal the whole deal in with another type of vapour barrier, and successfully trap it all inside, well something tells me this ain't a good thing... all for the purpse of not taking down the drywall? money? Where's that moisture from? , is it new or old?.... Seems like anything you do on the interior walls, won't solve the reason's why it's wet, which brings me again to the point, that if it's not done right, maybe just leave it, paint it like normal.