Da Vinci

Thanks,Wolverine I'll talk you later about it after I check out your site.

Bob
www.elshaddaipainting.com

Polyurea Pat

In my experience Polyaspartics are the way to go but 10 mils is too thin. Did you go with the system?

Da Vinci

I've lightly browsed the site, but need more time to look at product specs- been a busy week...

I'll let you know. There is a deminar down in So Cal which I might pop down to to see some demonstrations...

Bob

cabook

We install concrete overlays and lots of epoxy coatings. We found a product we like better than the epoxy and it's a polyaspartic polyurea. We use it on garage floors, but also for sealing our acid stained floors. It UV stable - important here in AZ - and tough as nails - doesn't seem to scratch as easy as epoxy and is glossier.

advacoat-mason

There is a lot to know about Polyaspartics. If you are looking into them you need to do your research. First you need to find out what the % rate of solids is in the material. They all start out at 100% and are cut back so they are easier to use. The big question is 1 How much is it cut back to, how many differant solvents are into the material, is the material VOC complient? There are good Epoxies and bad Epoxies, there are good Polyaspartics and bad Polyaspartics. All I can say is do your research.
If you have any questions, I would be more then happy to help you out.
Mason

Z paint

i used a rustoleum proffesional floor expoxy on my garage floor like 3 years ago and its a little dirty and hard to get clean again...woiuld it be feasible th recoat the epoxy without much prep or would i have to etch again...i figure a good epoxy might adhere to wat there though

gene dean

Elite Crete has just got the paper work completed for their new pap product. Also, their 100% solids epoxy is self priming. Classes held at over 30 locations and they don't take you to the bank. Was that breaking the rules?
gene

__________________
Elite Crete of Indiana
Architectural Concrete Finishes
Info@elitecreteindiana.com

GarageGuy

Polyaspartic floors are great for the home/light traffic projects, but there is a much more durable, and efficient product that has been on the market for 20+ years, MMA (Methyl Methacrylate) .
Methacrylate chemistry is vastly different from many other commonly used resin technologies on the market today. Methacrylates are part of the acrylics family, sharing the same chemistry used to create everyday products, including Plexiglas¤1 house paints, eyeglass lenses, dental materials, even medical implants, and — of course — reactive acrylic resins used as commercial and industrial flooring systems. Methacrylate reactive resins are based on acrylic and methacrylic acid esters. This is the reason for the fast and efficient curing mechanisms of methacrylate materials. Cured resins are inherently UV stable and resistant to a variety of chemicals. Methacrylate reactive resins are efficiently cured with very small amounts of organic peroxide hardeners. Other chemistries depend on large quantities of curing agents that play a major role in the characteristics of the end product. Inaccurate dosing results in incomplete cure and compromised performance properties. Methacrylates offer a simpler, more reliable approach with full cure within one hour of application over a wide temperature range. Methacrylates, especially methyl methacrylate (MMA), are distinguished by their distinct odor. This odor does not equate with hazard or volatile organic compound (VOC) emissions. As reactive, rather than solvent-borne systems, methacrylates are environmentally responsible and VOC compliant. When applied to resinous flooring systems designed for industrial and commercial uses, methacrylate chemistry results in systems and products that meet a wide variety of technical and design criteria: durability, reduced life cycle costs, time savings, ease of maintenance, versatility and aesthetics. Quality Control These unique, solvent free, 100% reactive acrylic resin formulations are the result of years of rigorous testing in independent labs and in the field. On-going training and state-of-the-art service programs are an integral part of our value added quality control protocol. From the primers to the topcoats, all components are designed to meet your specific requirements. There is no need to mix and match various components from a multitude of suppliers to complete a project. MMA systems are formulated for total compatibility of each component part to create a complete system ready for application upon delivery.
Benefits of MMA
1 Hour Cure Time:

Downtime/long installation time for the customer is a major concern. The one hour cure of MMA Floors eliminates excessive downtime. The customer can use their floor within an hour after installation is completed. Even in temperature extremes down to -20...F, MMA systems fully cure in one hour. This is due to the unique curing mechanism inherent to methacrylate technology. MMA Floors cure via a free radical polymerization reaction. Within one hour of application, virtually 100% has been converted from a liquid to an inert solid. There are no unreacted portions of the material left to leach out of the system.
MMA Floors consist of resin and a powder initiator. The initiator rapidly dissolves in the resin and begins the curing process without effecting the properties of the finished product, unlike other multi-component systems. This unique curing process guarantees a material that meets defined physical properties that remain uniform from batch to batch. This one hour cure; methacrylate resin systems are superior to other available technologies. For years, MMA flooring systems have been recognized for superior quality and longevity. These unique flooring systems are used on a continuing basis in over 40 countries around the world.

Permanent Welded Bond:

A flooring system is only as good as its bond to the substrate. With every application of a MMA Floor, bond tests are performed just prior to the flooring system application. This unique quality control measure, specified on every job, assures proper substrate preparation and permanent bond of MMA to the substrate. Only a one hour cure system can provide this kind of permanent bond assurance. This simple test consists of applying patties of the selected MMA material at strategic locations throughout the job site. The patties are allowed to cure (45 minutes - 1 hour), and then removed with a chisel and hammer. Bond Test The results of these tests verify a proper bond of the system to the substrate by showing a fracture plane within the aggregate of the concrete. Once a proper bond is established, the MMA is then applied beginning with a primer, followed by the overlay resin and completed with the application of one or more topcoats.

Intercoat Chemical Bond:

Intercoat chemical bond is unique to MMA. MMA begins with a low viscosity penetrating primer. Overlay and topcoat resins are then applied. These subsequent resin applications chemically bond together with the primer and cure to form one continuous mass, even if new MMA resin is applied years later. This chemical bond provides a completely welded, monolithic flooring system without cold joints, voids or pinholes.

Ease of Cleaning & Maintenance:

MMA flors are resin rich and non-porous. This creates an impervious, monolithic, seamless flooring system that liquids, dirt and impurities cannot penetrate. Dirt and spills remain on the surface and are easily removed by most regular cleaning procedures. Cleaning costs are reduced in many environments since MMA floors never need to be waxed or stripped.

Versatility:

MMA provides ideal flooring solutions in both interior and exterior applications across a wide range of applications. Garages; pharmaceutical/health facilities, supermarkets, food processing plants, restaurants, stadiums, public facilities, industrial plants and countless others.

Aesthetics:

A dynamic range of colors and textures are available in MMA Floors. Proprietary pigment, flake and quartz selections, varying degrees of texture, slip resistance and system thicknesses provide an endless array of custom design choices. This allows the design professional great flexibility to create systems that meet the most specific aesthetic, performance and application requirements.

Durability & Life Cycle Cost:

The cost of products can only be determined by their performance and durability over time. Many flooring materials that appear economical in the short run provide only brief service life and then break down and/or delaminate. The cost of repairing and/or replacing these short lived systems can be extremely expensive in lost time and budget overruns. MMA Floor systems eliminate the need for these costly repairs. They do not ravel, chalk, disintegrate, or become brittle over time. MMA is UV and color stable, impact and abrasion resistant and withstand wide temperature fluctuations. These systems are known worldwide for their long, durable service life that results in minimal life cycle costs.

Taranis

Garage Guy,
I see you like MMa.

You have put a lot of positives forward for this system to the detriment of others but I do not like using MMa for a couple of reasons.

If a client needs a fast cure system, generally it is in a built up area. The (very) strong odour that comes from it affects everyone else in the vicinity. We do many pubs, clubs, restaraunts and shops and if we used an MMa all the other local businesses would be far from happy about the smell. It permeates everywhere. They lose custom, our client is in the bad books, we are the bad guys. Same with residential, neighbours would certainly not appreciate the smell. Although it does not last long (until the floor has cured) it leaves an impression. We do tell the client about the smell but it can't be appreciated until you start using it.

We have used different systems to shorten the time on site using a combination of epoxy, PU and polyaspartic for the seal coats.

Where possible we use epoxy. Easier to lay without leaving trowel marks and can use a wider range of filler aggregates for colour/design. If possible we use epoxy seal coats with maybe a water based Pu matt seal if required.
Where time is a major factor we would seal with a polyaspartic. Means a two day job but no smell, no effect to others.

"This unique curing process guarantees a material that meets defined physical properties that remain uniform from batch to batch."

Same would be said for epoxy etc. Mixes are pre-batched so no colour/chemical variance.

"Only a one hour cure system can provide this kind of permanent bond assurance. This simple test consists of applying patties of the selected MMA material at strategic locations throughout the job site. The patties are allowed to cure (45 minutes - 1 hour), and then removed with a chisel and hammer."

Drop some Polyurethane resin onto any floor without preparation and it will stick like "*hit to a blanket". See how much concrete you lift when lifting that off.

"Ease of Cleaning & Maintenance:"

MMas, just like epoxy, polyaspartic and Pu can be made smoother or rougher dependant on client's requirements, so cleaning shouldn't be an issue if this is the main concern.

"Aesthetics:"

Same could be said for epoxy or polyaspartic.

Not to denigrate anything you have said but to say MMa is better than all the rest is not right.
Horses for courses.
When looking or specifying any job all requirements, conditions should be assessed and proposals put forward to suit.

Look forward to any discussion.
Cheers
Mark

DCAM

Just came across this site and can say I am a CE with polyaspartic experience, a bunch. Epoxy is not UV stable unless UV absorbers are blended in. Even still, the epoxy backbone will break down similar to benzene rings in aromatic coatings, you know the bed liners that powder and turn gray. Polyaspartics are UV stable and have even better performance than aliphatic coatings. Polyaspartics perform at 60% less mil thickness than coatings and by far out perform epoxy coatings, mil to mil.
Drop a 1" wrench on epoxy floors and spider cracks will be witnessed. Polyaspartics are softer to absorb the impact and have higher elongation and tensile ratings so if the floor flexes, the polyaspartic will also. Chemical resistance is excellent.

Application can be completed with Polyaspartics in many methods depending on the formulation "gel" time. Gel times can be adjusted to provide open times from minutes to hours. They are also available in 100% solids, NO VOC's

Polyaspartics rock in my opinion

vic T

I'll tell you a story about Polyaspartic. In my local paper. Was the story of the old lady that went in a coma cause of the high toxic fumes that polyaspartic release's. She passed out cause of the smell, woke up a week later.Pretty scary. I got a environmentally ,No order no toxic epoxy on my garage floor.The company did a great job in preperation first and applyed 3 coats of epoxy.They sell it to the do it your selfs too.All I'm saying is if you don't want to put up with toxic fumes for a few days then you may not like the Polyaspartic.

Vic

LAD

Good advice about having enough ventilation.

__________________
Dan-Liquid Art Design
www.LiquidArtDesign.com

Taranis

Don't have a problem with the smell of our Polysapartic. There is no real smell that comes from it. Well, the one we use anyway.

Thundercow

We use epoxy in our garage makeover business.

One feature of Polyaspartics that I have seen in the completed installations I have seen is that PAs dry faster so they are rougher--slightly rougher--when they dry.

Epoxies are slower to dry, so they level out nicely over the 45 minutes or so until they bind up, and that gives a nice, glassy appearance.

But that's just one factor...

__________________
Epoxy Floors Austin
Pool Builders Austin
SEO Austin
Pool Cleaning

rkymtnman30

I have applied a million sq ft of both and hands down polyaspartic but there is a learning curve, you have to work fast and efficient and not all polyaspartics are created equal Spartacote, hpspartacote com, will save you a large part of the headaches. Epoxy for high build applications as polyaspartic is a thin build system but it will out last most epoxy's. MMA's have their place but it is awful to work with and with the growing "green" movement it is getting harder to be allowed to use them. Polyaspartic has a lower VOC than all MMA's and most epoxy's. Feel free to contact me with futher questions.

billeboy

Who's p.a do you use? The ones i've tested all seem to have slightly different characteristics. I'd like to slow down the setting time. How could i do that? Also, I've been looking for u.v. test data on p.a's and haven't come up with anything yet. Do you think you could roll on a p.a. onto exposed agg on an exterior application and have the roll coat last for 10 years, or more? How long do you think it might last for?

panderson2414

you guys with your water borne crap. Get a pair and use some Vinester120. Put on some air supplied helmets and get to it. Sandblasting and painting is where its at. Get a tank liner going or a good acid pool job. You bitch about swinging a brush try being the guy that specs, works it, and waranties it

Taranis

Whit????

tsju

I have been in the coatings arena for over 35 years. Call or email me at tsju@aol.com and I'll get you connected up with someone in your area.

Tom 239-405-1410