The Tide is Turning Towards Energy Efficiency - Page 3 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Rio · 10-18-2009, 11:18 PM

A few points on the green movement. Bird kills are a major problem with wind turbines. It's been estimated that up to 300,000 birds have been killed in them and there are also issues with the actual cost of the electricity manufactured by them when maintenance, depreciation and material costs are figured into the whole system. Having said that green is here to stay and a lot of green features do make sense. We are working with a company that uses PISF's (pre insulated steel framing, basically styrofoam with light gauge steel framing) and they had to re-size a HVAC down from 6 tons to 1.5 tons because the house ended up being so much more insulated.

For better or for worse California is leading the nation and the world in requiring more and more green features and energy efficient systems to be used in residential and commercial new construction as well as in change outs in HVAC and lighting systems. These new regulations are taking place in January of 2009 and then in another two years even more severe regulations will be in place unless AB32, the California greenhouse gas reduction bill, is revoked. With our unemployment at over 12% and rising one has to question if now is the time to be implementing more and more draconian regulations (not to mention the government intrusion in one's life).

On the subject of greenhouse gases the debate is NOT OVER, despite what Al Gore said (to feather his own nest). There are a large number of well known scientists who do not think that global warming is inevitable, climate change is the normal condition, and while it is a good idea to be as ecologically responsible as possible, it is another to commit economic suicide doing so. Really, the biggest global polluter is poverty and if we impoverish ourselves to make some political statement that is not based on reality we will be doing far more to help pollute the planet than if we continue on our present course.

piercekiltoff · 10-18-2009, 11:46 PM

Technically, the geothermal system's you guys are talking about are called 'geo-exchange' systems. Geothermal is actually a method of producing energy from hot rocks in the earth - using the rocks to produce steam to spin turbines is the most common method.

Australia has just released some calculations that show they can produce up to 20,000 times their own energy consumption just by spinning turbines with the hot rocks/water that is currently known to exist.

In Nevada & Oregon, Geothermal drilling is getting quite popular, with bores going anywhere from 3000 to 10,000+ feet to reach 300 to 400 °F rocks that can be used to produce steam for turbines. It's all very much in its infancy, as like oil wells, it takes awhile to get this stuff moving.

I've seen some promo's for a rig that is built in Germany, designed specifically for geothermal well construction - machines that can be setup and provide complete noise enclosure, and essentially drill & develop a power plant in an urban setting.

One example in Australia of a geothermal system; the Great Artesian Basin has provided water via a 3/4 mile deep bore for a geothermal power station at Birdsville. The heated water is 208 °F, flowing naturally from the ground without pumps, and provides 25% of the town's needs (roughly 80kw).

SolarUniverse · 10-19-2009, 10:05 PM

30 years ago, some guy at IBM said that no more than 100,000 PCs will ever be sold...

Energy efficiency is real and not just from a environmental sense.... It makes more green in a cents point of view. Energy IS going to get more expensive over time (unless you don't believe in inflation.) Peak oil has been hit and petroleum/energy companies are scrambling to replace their markets (BP Solar for example.)

All alternative energy fields are dictated by markets. The cost of energy, cost of systems to replace current energy generation technology, etc. Solar in Hawaii - makes LOTS and LOTS of sense. Solar in British Columbia (Canada) not so much given the vast hydro opportunities. Issues with bird kills... see if vertical blades (less low pressure developed) is a better technological solution.

So, up front, decrease waste (over sized system, phantom draw, poorly insulated, constructed buildings etc.), and change those things that can be done without negatively affecting people.

Then, look at micro generation, minimizing footprints, waste.

From the construction side --- follow the money. Where incentives are rich and energy costs are high, educate yourself on the technology and be a consultative expert. You will sell more, sell a higher ASP, and maybe even get a hug or two from your customers.

MALCO.New.York · 10-20-2009, 12:15 AM

^^^^ Save The Whales.......................Dude!!! ^^^^

MALCO.New.York · 10-20-2009, 12:17 AM

As for Geo-Thermal...........................

Great way to REALLY kill our Planet. Suck ALL the heat right on out!!!

Solar and Nuclear are the ONLY real "Greens"!!

Rick Rowlands · 10-27-2009, 09:47 PM

Many of the attributes of being Green are good, such as energy efficiency, waste reduction etc., but Green itself is a marketing opportunity to some, a lifestyle choice to others and a religion to some in the fringes. It is most certainly a fad. No I'm not saying that energy efficiency is a fad, but the whole part about being Green to make a social statement, that part is a fad.

Green has gotten a bad reputation due in part to its linkage with manmade global warming, which is being proven as the greatest lie on earth.

I like to save money, so I use the CFLs, turn down the thermostat, and make other decisions that are in line with Green philosophy. But I most certainly do not identify myself as being Green, which is also a political philosophy.

One of the things about this Green fad that bothers me is the blatant hypocricy. Lowe's will run ads about green this and green that, and their corporate philosophy is the typical BS about good environmental stewardship yada yada yada, then you walk into the lighting department and there are THREE HUNDRED INCANDESCENT BULBS burning all day long, every day. They are using more power for their lighting display than probably four houses do!

The new Walmarts are supposed to be extremely efficient stores and make maximum use of skylights, but whoever designed the skylight placement did not confer with the electrical engineers, as they are placed on different spacings and you'll find that some of the flourescent lights run right under a skylight. So the fixture blocks out the natural light so it can be replaced with artificial light!

Also, if communities were serious about being Green, they would stuff their curbside recycling programs and instead remove all of those annoying little stop signs that they seem to put up everywhere. We have all seen them, four way stops on streets that see fifty cars a day and such. I am sure someone has figured out just how much fuel is burned bringing an average car from 30 mph to a full stop and resuming speed. Multiply that by the number of cars at each unneccesary stop sign and then by the number of signs, and you will see that a HUGE amount of fuel is wasted in this area alone. Lets even go farther and state that timer run traffic signals should be outlawed and replaced by smart signals. How much fuel is wasted sitting at a light for no other reason than the timer ran out and it turned red on you?

What about all of these businesses that keep their signs lit up all night long? If the store is closed whats the point in burning 1000 watts of power notifying a bunch of 3 am drunk drivers that a Home Depot occupies this parcel of earth? Turn em off when the doors lock!

Until I start seeing individuals, corporations and governments start making meaningful attempts to reduce their power consumption, then Green will remain in my mind just a scam, a marketing ploy and a method of propaganda designed to control human behavior.