woodmagman

Building green means new materials and changing construction methods. The reason I posed the question is MDF green is that I, like many watch PBS and enjoy a program called This Old House. A segment on building green was on where Norm discussed what the builder considered green. A lot that is heard in this show is taken as gospel. MDF was being used for the interior trims and it was considered green because it is a cycled product. Then why would a product that is considered green make every contractor that works with it suit up with respirators, when they have to work with it.
It has to be a product that out gas for some time and must affect the indoor air quality. It is not green if that is the case. How many other items are affecting indoor air quality.

Boogga

That's right, MDF does give off a gas until sealed with paint.

Also enamel paints give off gas, yet it is only the initial application of the paint.

Carpets with all the dust mites I suppose aren't helping the quality of the air inside the house. Try to stay with tiles or hardwood floors.

Am I right?

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"It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

skyhook

Medium Density Fiberboard is fine sawdust, rebonded with resin into sheets or moldings. Cutting it produces a micro fine dust. Without a respirator and protective clothing, the carcinogenic, formaldehyde laden dust will find its way into the lungs, eyes and ears.

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Milhaus

Boogga - good point on the flooring. I never looked at it that way.

KD@Northeast

I have a better indoor air quality question. When we build a new green building and take all the precations to use the green material and do the 2 week flush out of the building so the material can off gas and after the owner moves in. Why don't theyhave to use the same green material to clean and maintain the buildings and keep records that they are doing such so they can continue to receive the tax credits they get. I would think that after the building is built with green materials and methods that it should be maintained in the same manner.

woodmagman

Yeh but.....the fact that you can seal in all toxins, is not comforting. That is working on the same principle as the deeper you bury nucular waste the safer it is. "Rather then, no waste no worry"

concretemasonry

If you want a real green building, just build with masonry. It has worked well for many years until the U.S. builders got "smart" and built differently and created modern materials that use more energy and release more pollutants.

Also, the total energy situation is good if you bother to consider everything.

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Dick

woodmagman

I hear yeh........not a good insulator though!

concretemasonry

The insulating value is far better than people think due to the mass. Most people are accustomed to using the simplistic steady state laboratory test results (R-value) instead of realistic dynamic measurements.

That is one of the reasons concrete and masonry are the most common wall building materials in the developed world. The two ex-colonies/possesions in North America are the only major exceptions.

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Dick

woodmagman

Mass is only good for maintaining heat or cold. A concrete foundation surrounded by frost, 7 months of the year radiates as much cold in as it radiates house heat out.

Polysteel

ICF construction is an even bigger improvement!

concretemasonry

ICFs are a good construction system for many applications. Unfortunately, there are some barriers to the acceptance in many applications.

I conducted a marketing study for a ICF supplier (current or new at the time) about 15 years ago. Some of the application problems identified have been solved and some still limit the use severely. The process of getting the bugs out of the construction process and details has been very slow. Several are still unsatisfied and limit the use in some markets and applications.

1. There is still not a satisfactory method to verify the quality of the concrete in place for a basement. Above grade it is not as critical.

2. Satisfactory methods of using the system in conjuction with other systems and materials are still lacking. This includes connections with masonry, wood and steel wall systems. Also the options for exterior finishes are limited unless cost is no problem. Methods for other systems (masonry, wood and steel) have been developed. It will be up to the national association to put up some serious money to play catch-up. Not everyone wants a home that is 100% one system.

3. From a "Green" standpoint, the exposed foam face is a problem in many people's mind, either by code, preference or the continual "off gassing" that the big foam companies have not solved.

4. The requirement of having both sides insulated that is dictated by the need for forms is detrimental. In many cases, the extra insulation is wasteful, not needed or not desired. Using too much insulation is wasteful from a Green standpoint.

For much of the world that uses masonry for residential construction, ICFs could not be used from either a cost or practical basis. Not all locations in the U.S. require or want high levels of insulation, so other systems are more desireable. For that portion of the U.S. that needs the high level of insulation, it is practical and is definitely much "Greener" than either wood or steel stud construction. - That is if you consider all the factors in the definition of green.

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Dick