For ICF Builders - Question About Bracing

GreginAlaska

Last ones

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GreginAlaska

Hi mics, ya I bought my Logix from Terry too.

mics_54

I was mostly pleased with them but Terry slipped in a few old blocks on my last job. Mastik doesnt stick to deteriorating foam well. I suggest not letting your blocks get sun burned. I have no idea how long it takes.

GreginAlaska

Kind of like the off-colored ones in that first bundle?

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mics_54

Cant tell...those look pretty good...if you rub your hand on them and white comes off on your hand...thats what I'm talking about...You might not even care if it's above grade unless you want to get a coating or bitumin to stick to it....but yes they looked kind of like that yellowing. The old ones I got were left over from other jobs or returns or something.

747

I think one of the most important factors when using icf is this. Making sure you vibrate the hell out of them when the cement is being pumped. So no voids in the cement.. Your project looks outstanding. I think icf rock. You don't get stronger then cement. In huricane zones they kick them up a notch. Building the whole house out of them. Also including hard core windows.

GreginAlaska

We didn't vibrate it at all, there is so much steel in that thing that it would have been very difficult to get a vibrator down it. (according to the guy who helped me). We ended up using an additive called "Glenium", he said it is a water reducing agent that makes the concrete very workable but doesn't hurt the strength of it. The concrete showed up with a slump of about 2, they put in part of a bucket of the stuff and it flowed rather well. We had holes drilled in the bottom of the window bucks, it just shot out of them as we were filling the walls close to them, we had to block the holes.

I'll admit that not vibrating worries me, I did go around with a rubber mallet and tap on the bracing boards and the rebar. I've also spent several hours going around, patting on the walls, trying to find voids...I haven't found any yet.

Anyone else have experience with Glenium? Think it is as good as they claim?

joasis

I vibrate every pour. No exceptions, ever. We use a pad sometimes, but usually a snake, and even touch the rebar...you would be surprised how much is settles out.

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GreginAlaska

Maybe I should have it x-rayed? hmmmm now I'm worried even more.

Latest pics after a bit of clean up and bracing removal.

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GreginAlaska

a few more

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joasis

You undoubtedly will have small voids where the rebars cross, etc., but if you feel like it is consolidated, then don't worry about it. The best thing about concrete is the "one shot" opportunity.

You did not say specifically why you didn't vibrate, but no ad mixes will replace vibrating to consolidate concrete inside of any forms.

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user50444

"but no ad mixes will replace vibrating to consolidate concrete inside of any forms."

An scc mix but I'd be questionable on an ICF

Jayrek

Looks good.

Please get some safety caps on the rebar.

I found that pumping 6 slump 4000 in 3 foot lifts eliminates blowouts and can take a light vibrating in an icf.

GreginAlaska

Well is it the best thing, or the worst thing?

The main reason I didn't do it is because of the guy that helped me, he says he never does it and feels that doing it in 16 inch lifts and pounding on the braces and rebar would be enough, he was also worried about not being able to get the vibrator down through all the steel...I didn't quite buy that one though.

GreginAlaska

Thanks

I'll get some caps, you never know when someone might parachute in.

Hmmm, I guess someone could get poked when we start working on it again, Do they cost much?

747

once on a tv show they were using a exterior vibrator. Don't know what it is called. They would actually put it on the exterior styrofoam. First time i ever seen that. All the other times they would use like a snake vibrator inbetween the styrofoam.

joasis

You, my friend, received bad advice.

On an 8 or 9 foot wall, we will run 3 passes typically. We fill the windows first (sills), and vibrate, and then 3 times around, vibrating each pass, at the top of the pass, making sure to hold the head to the steel...this dampen the vibration to a point, and more importantly, consolidates the concrete around the rebar. If you over vibrate, then of course, the pressure in the form will increase until a blow out in inevitable. As the mud settles, then you know it is enough. Experience pays. We all learn from this stuff....but anyway, your work looks great.

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GreginAlaska

After spending a BUNCH of money to have the walls inspected with some sort of radar, the walls are fine, consolidation is just about 100%. After I spent the money, my contractor pointed out the following report from the Portland Cement Association.

http://www.icfmag.com/documents/PCA_...ion_Report.pdf

Oh well, at least I don't have to worry about it holding up the 100 ton roof

GreginAlaska

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GreginAlaska

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