Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters

 
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:27 PM   #1
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Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Been in construction 40 plus years. Started building storm shelters and built my own concrete house. Need advice on marketing on shoe string budget
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:21 PM   #2
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


ICF is the future, all the manufacturers are doing the advertising, you just need to promote yourself as the installer, suppliers and distributors will give your name out if you are good and commit yourself to the business

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Old 06-17-2011, 09:28 PM   #3
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I don'y know if the various ICF companies have ever been able to pass the FEMA requirents for projectile intrusion. It took the wood people many years to meet the test performance requirements by using closely space 2x6's with lamitated layers of steel and 3/4" plywood. The roof is a toally different story.

Fatatalties from projectiles ( wood. steel, etc.) are the most common cause of deaths from tornadoes.

The FEMA standards/suggestions are based on years of testing actual walls and also contain the important information such as anchorage, roof and especially hardware including doors (and swing direction) and ventilatation.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:30 PM   #4
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I can build anything, anywhere, anytime. What kind of prices are you talking. I can build a concrete tilt wall house burmed and dried in, shell for $45 sq.ft. or finished $85 sq. ft. I know because I live in one. I wish I had burmed it though. I decked the roof with metal roof deck, 3" of styrofome insulation and a steel shingle roof with a hail rating of standing seam roofs and capable of withstanding 120 mile per hour winds. My attic stay the temperature of outside.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:41 PM   #5
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Recently attended the National storm shelter association work shop. Very informative. My next step is to join them. More of a formality though. I use 6000 lb. concrete with fiber mesh and some concrete wire with rebar in key places. I build the cheapest shelter on the internet.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:47 PM   #6
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I am trying to market my concrete earth shelter. It is tilt walls with burmede roof. Very effiecient(green) tornado proof, metal stud framing makes it fire and termite proof, and with sola, so say the solar people, off the grid and no electric bill.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:48 PM   #7
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Dick, I'm not sure what they have done with FEMA, I know testing was completed and passed for a 2x4 hitting the wall at 200 mph and it passed with flying colors.

The weakest part on the ICF structure is the picture windows people put in, haha
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:12 PM   #8
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


The National stom shelter association shoots em at 100 mph.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:21 PM   #9
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I use 6000 lb concrete with fiber mesh. Bullet proof
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:01 AM   #10
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


The last time I saw the testing at Texas for the FEMA standards, they used an air cannon shooting a 12' 2x4 at 145 mph.

The criteria is for life safety and not just having the walls standing. For projectile and life safety, the requirement is NO penetration.

As long as products and systems meet the requirements, they can be listed as an acceptible application. Because of the failure of many materials, there is pressure to relax the criteria.

P.S. - Fibers are not reinforcement, but are good for micro-crack control. Since the tests usually controlled by shear, ther wall thickness AND materials in the wall are important.
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:13 AM   #11
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I think your right, it was 145 mph or so.

Anyways, the ICF passed the test.

Fiber reinforced concrete does nothing for my wall strength value, it requires rebar everytime
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:38 AM   #12
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Small mesh does not strengthen but large fiber does replace rebar. I use wire and rebar also with a metal form that stays with the shelter
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:11 AM   #13
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I talked to a storm shelter builder that tested at A&M and his 4'x6'x6' tall shelter with no floor would withstand an f3 not attached to the concrete floor and epoxied to floor would take 550 mph winds which do not exist.
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:16 AM   #14
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Wind loads are not structurally that important if yoy follow the FEMA "safe cell" construction, since the resulting structure build for projectile resistance will usually be far more than the wind loads because of the materials used and requirement for a substantial foundation and a concrete roof.

In Oklahoma, they are frequently built and used as closets, storage rooms or bathrooms with larger doors that must be swinging into the safe area.

Above ground, below ground or in a basement they are designed for life safety and survival and that usually trumps any card a structural engineer like me can hold. sometimes it is hard to recognize a safe cell unless you know what to look for.


Afton - Has your wall configuration ever been tested and approved?
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:08 PM   #15
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


That is my next step. The National storm shelter association wants $3500 to test. We have missed each other for various reasons but it would be to my benefit to test. That would not change my shelter. I tested the concrete, 6000 lb. with fiber mesh. It came up 3800 lbs in 5 days. Much better than 5000 lb. concrete. That is a key to marketing I am sure. It is not a certification but they are a key for advertising. My door is under review with an engineer. He did not like my first one that did not have access from outside, now it does. You can find pics on facebook at Lewis Afton Allen
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:17 PM   #16
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


I also should say I am really trying to find a market, such as Florida for my concrete earth shelter. It would be very green, not that I am worried about global warming, but It would be tornado proof, constant temp, fire proof, hurricane proof, and with solar power, off the grid with no electric bill. I'm on a fishing trip to get my message and business out there. Joplin can be rebuilt with whole neighbor hoods of these houses. The next storm would have no deaths and no houses lost. Somebody please wake up. I can build them cheaper than wood frame houses. I have done tilt wall construction since 1977. I am not the typical contractor. I have built everything you can think of. Not an engineer but have more practical knowledge than the law allows.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:32 PM   #17
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


You would be best served by finding a techno savy person to build a web site and showcase your work....bear in mind, in many municipalities, the style of construction you are promoting would not be permitted without engineered prints. There isn't any amount of practical experience that will circumvent the rules.
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:48 PM   #18
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Yes, Irealizethis
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:54 PM   #19
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Are you talkin about livin in this thing or putting one out back for a storm shelter
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:06 PM   #20
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Re: Concrete Storm Shelters And Concrete Earth Shelters


Oh no, I live in my concrete home and sell shelters. Just need marketing ideas. Build concrete and steel shelters and f about to build my first earth shelter

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