Steam Boiler Locked Out

Tom M

Guys I need a little help with a steam boiler. First off can steam boilers can be completely locked out? Or should I say a low water cut-off lock out the whole system. I flush out a boiler for a family member disconnected the glass guage and cleaned it then I could not refill it. There is an automatic water feeder that was installed with-out a bypass loop for manual filling. In the past if I had to add water I would ask for heat then push the red feeder button (now green) and add water. I cannot get any indication of power from this thing now. There are no lights for low water alarm nor do I hear any relay's going through its attempt. Would an air lock around a probe type cut off put the sytem in a coma? Do I have to unscrew it a little to purge this? Any other ideas?

K2

The low water shut-off collects sediment and if it gets blocked it can shut you off. It has never happened to me but I try to flush out once a week using the flush valve.... that's all I have . i'll be watching your thread.

We Fix Houses

Float switch...gotta be removable for repl or cleaning. It does get sediment. See if you can close the float switch by bring the wires together. Then you'll see if the fill switch operates. Should be able to overide all the valves and switches.

The manual for the unit may be avail at the mfg's website. It'll show where all these floats and switches are.

skymaster

If the feeder is McConnell 101, look on top and you will see a hole about 3/4" stick ur finger into it and you will find a button that allows you to manually open it, sometimes water level gets so low that you need to srat it manually untill it get enuf water to kick into auto.
Also YES to the above comments, you should have a drain valve on the bottom and it MUST be flushed monthly, if it is the float then UNPOWER it and you have to remove the BACK where the wires are attached, inside you will see the copper float, NEW GASKETS A MUST if you disassemble

Grumpyplumber

Whatever ya do, if you try bypassing safeties and find a short, DO NOT leave it that way.

I'm going to resort to the usual and suggest you get a pro in to take a look.

It's probably something very simple, but this is a boiler and if it turns out to be more complicated you could create a serious safety hazard without realizing it.

Tom M

Its a Mcconnell and Miller not sure the model. Are we talking about the feeder or the cut-off? I did not see any button that would allow me to manually open it on the feeder. The housing cover of the cut-off says excessive debris could cause a "grounded probe" which seems highly possible. But it also says refill and flush which is a mute point since I cant get any function to move. I feel like shutting off the supply ahead of the automatic water feed and pipe in a loop that allows me to by pass this thing. There are so many things done ass backward my in laws are afraid to flush it out or even touch it. I cant have them ignoring the maintence or have them calling the utility company everytime they attempt it either. She didnt flush it out for like ten years. After I argued with her about it and tried to flush this clogged up unit last year we ended up having the utility company come and jamb a wire hanger up the drain to free it up. It really needs to be skimmed. Now being a nice guy I end up with another issue.

K2

Just make sure you have a pressure relief valve or 4. I keep 4 on my system just because boilers can go thru the roof if sombody screws up and also my low pressure system runs at 3 lbs and there is not much of a chance of nuisance popping with valves set at 15 to 30 lbs. In my area steam experts are rare because there are not many steam systems. It took me a long time to sort out fact from fiction regarding steam heat but it sounds like you have it under control.

skymaster

Tom: the feeder I would tell ya to do this:
go to WWW.HEATINGHELP.COM Dan is the top steam man there is. On that site there will be the most help you could get. All of the folks there are hvac experts.
Jack

Tom M

Thanks for the link Jack. You helped me out last time to. I am going to post that question in that site to see what comes back. K2 will write what they suggest and what ultimately solves this.

skymaster

Tom: how about some pics and captions? I really dont have the mental picture of what is going on. Also you can PM me or email and I will send ya a phone number, this is truly: whats wrong with this picture, moment.
There has to be a drain at the bottom of the boiler, most likely you will have to make up a double female hose but you can fill it there to at least prove the boiler lights off and runs properly. At least that gets ya heat while you try to resolve this. On every mc connell 101 feeder I have ever owned there IS a hole on top with a button for manual feed. IF the low water cutoff is bad then YES you will have issues getting water into the boiler. IF you fill the boiler as I sugested and you still cant get the boiler to fire then I would head right to the cutoff. Remember also that the CUTOFF USUALLY POWERS THE FEED! Did you check for power at the feed? At cutoff? At this point I would do some changes also, since it is down make sure the feed is plumbed into the system with unions and shutoffs at BOTH sides and might as well run a bypass loop as a cya. Remember another shutoff in the middle of the bypass. Keep me posted, meanwhile my brain is spinn on this for ya.
If ya move your boiler closer to me I can run over to help

22rifle

BTW, I am looking at installing new cabinets in my house. Does anyone know any good plumbers or HVAC guys who are cabinet experts that I could get to help me with this?

MALCO.New.York

Ouch!

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

Tom M

Are you saying you dont post anywhere but here or HVAC? For that matter I see a lot of mechanical trades post all over the carpentry threads on a regular basis.
No one here is installing a new system here so dont get me started. Boiler maintence is a regular service for home owners. Knowledge of the system and how it operates at a basic level or beyond is not uncommon. No one is asking for wiring diagrams for relay by passes here are they?

skymaster

Tom: dont get upset, after all a .22 caliber is such a tiny underpowered caliber. Sounds like he has .50 caliber envy.
And .22 YES I do know people who can do more than one thing,well.
If you need help ask, I am sure I can find someone who will have pity on the helpless

22rifle

Relax man. I ain't busting on you.

My only message to you is to get your advice from professionals in the trade. DIYers working on boilers is dangerous enough without getting your advice from guys who aren't experienced professionals.

Your best bet is to run any advice given in this thread by the pros that hang out at www.heatinghelp.com. If one of them gives bad advice there are other pros there to call it out. Here, very few either know anything about steam and fewer yet will even talk to you about it. So a vinyl window installer or a cabinet maker might sound like they know what they are talking about, but might be feeding you dangerous information. There is no way to know unless the real pros speak up. Over at that other site the real pros will speak up if you get bad advice.

If you were trying to figure out how to treat diabetes you wouldn't accept the advice of a hair stylist without running it past a real doctor first. So why would you accept the advice of a cabinet maker without running it by a real steam pro first? Following bad advice can kill you when it comes to boilers.

Notice, I am not dissing any of the advice anyone gave you. Nor am I dissing them for giving you the advice. All I am saying is to recognize them for what they are in regards to steam heatin; knowledgeable homeowners, and check their advice with a real steam pro before you run with it.

Grumpyplumber

I hope your not charging those homeowners for your service.

He's saying he doesn't go into the electrical forum and expect them to answer questions about things he shouldn't be doing.
I'm sure he socializes with them, or not, but your not talking about the same thing.

ProWallGuy

nevermind...

__________________
Wallpaper Hanger St. Louis
Digital Murals Installation

22rifle

If the guy I'm pissed at has the guts to apologize it is only right I delete this.

MALCO.New.York

I will follow suit in the name of unity and Professionalism!!!! And delete!!!!

For future readers and those just joining us, this and the last two posts which have been deleted were more than mildly inflammatory.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

Grumpyplumber

That wasn't an incredibly well thought out way of making a point.

I spend a lot of time loitering in the other area's of this forum, I NEVER ask DIY questions of other professionals...especially if I'm told it might be a lil' dangerous.

I DO like to exchange idea's on running a business on occasion, or whine about b-tchy customers, we all have that in common.

I respect the boundaries of the other trades, this isn't a DIY forum.

Comparatively, mess up a cabinet and it looks like sh!t, maybe starts to fall apart in a month.
Mess up a boiler and kill a family in their sleep.

Don't misunderstand me, I truly understand the everyday hazards and complex safety measures to consider when installing cabinets, but boilers are pretty close there too when it comes to safety.

I'm just saying maybe you should think about this the next time your tightening a dangerous loose hinge or handle.
Boiler work requires almost the same level of experience, though maybe not quite as dangerous.

We get a little silly here sometimes.