So Much For No Burst!

smellslike$tome

I had never heard of nor seen this before! Although I have other problems with no burst hoses (I only use them on washing machines since they are better than bare rubber) I did not think this was supposed to be possible! House pressure tested at 130 psi but it is certain that this was not caused by 130 psi! I replaced the prv and re-ran the dishwasher supply in 1/4" soft copper.


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Ron The Plumber

Could have had a fraw in it when it got installed, that all it takes to cause a problem

Teetorbilt

What is house pressure doing at 130 PSI? WAY too high!!!!

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

smellslike$tome

fraw?

Like I said, I replaced the prv. Since I left this job though it has been bothering me that the HO did not report any water escaping from his t&P. Maybe he just did'nt notice any and I realize 130 psi is not enough to actuate it but I replace a lot of prvs around here and nearly always people call me asking about water heater replacement because their t&ps are leaking and they aren't plumbers so they have no idea that it usually has nothing to do with their water heaters.

I think I will call him back and ask him about it. I did notice that their was no expansion tank which means it would be even more likely that he should have had some leakage through his t&p (yes I know they are set at 150 psi and I only observed 130psi but this was not at a low usage time of day and as I said before their is no way that 130 psi blew that ss braid apart like that. Look at it again, there is not simply ahole in it, the braid is ripped apart around the entire circumferance of the supply. I think possibly there was water main work going on in the area, the HOs prv was already shot, and when they turned the main back on they sent a very nasty hammer down the line which caused this catastrophic rupture. I have made copper water line repairs to pipe joints that were blown apart as a result of this exact scenario, HO had a failed prv and did'nt know it, main work nearby, when they turned it back on, WHAM!

Ron The Plumber

Fray, who put that w in there.

Dustball

I thought it was "flaw". Good job on combining flaw and fray into one word.

Was there anything rubbing against the hose in that spot?

Teetorbilt

Where in the H are you that runs these kinds of pressures? A lot of air compressors shut down at 120.

Something sounds very wrong here.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

reveivl

They put in a new water tower here a couple years back and sent notices to everyone on the line that their water pressure might go as high as 110 psi. It was a heyday for putting in prv's. Almost made an entry in the "Most money shortest time" thread.

__________________
From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)

smellslike$tome

130 psi would be a very common water main pressure here. In fact I routinely read up to 160 psi and have destroyed a couple of pressure gauges when the needle pegged (200psi) and the gauge started filling with water. This, I imagine, is why I get so many calls about t&p valves leaking and also is the reason that it concerns me that this HO did not report any t&p leakage. We have moderately hard water here and I usually advise people not to fiddle with their t&ps because they often won't reseat properly once they actuate. I have often wondered if hard water deposits might act like glue with respect to these valves after they sit for a few years, not allowing them to open at the prescribed 150 psi in the event that their prvs fail?

Double-A

Yes, it can or it can block the outlet completely.

If you have a PRV without a bypass, then you need the expansion tank, IMHO.

I would recommend changing the T&P and installing the expansion tank in any case.

As far as the hose is concerned, that is exactly why I don't use them. Look at the inner core, the part that actually carrys the water. Looks like cheap 'surgical' tubing to me. How these things ever got a UPC approval is beyond me.

Just cause it looks like a hydraulic hose on a race car or space shuttle, doesn't mean it built like one.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Teetorbilt

Something is very wrong here. I was a utilities engineer for almost 7 yrs., got all of the mags & everything and I have never heard of anything like this. We tested our water mains @ 220 PSI but operational press. was only 60-80.

Water must be pretty expensive there, any idea of what it would cost to keep pressures that high? A shower could be a painful experience.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Ron The Plumber

Like I say, there was probably a defect or the SS braid was frayed at time in intallation. These do not blow do to high pressure, thats why there are PRV valves, we have high pressure here and I have never encountered a burst like what is seen.

mdshunk

160 lbs. mains pressure is common here as well, particularly if you're nearer the pump or water tower. You see, around here we have hills and mountains to overcome. Boosting the mains gets everyone at every elevation decent incoming pressure without adding utility equipment.

smellslike$tome

Same here in central Alabama, I live in the foot hills of the Appalachians. Teetor you live in Florida. No need for higher pressures there.

smellslike$tome

With all due respect Ron, I don't think there is any way that this is the result of fraying. I don't know how many individual strands of ss are in a braided line but each one would have had to have been frayed at the same distance from the end of the line and more or less to the same degree. Had it been frayed (and fraying is caused by friction) it would only have been weakend at the place at which the fraying occured. This looks like an explosive eruption which significantly exceeded the tensile strength of whatever gauge ss wire was used to construct the braid. It is equally devastating throughout the circumferance of the line. As for not blowing at high pressure, anything will blow if the pressure is great enough and while it's true that the purpose of the prv is to prevent this from happening I have yet to see a prv that has failed in the more restrictive sense. They always fail wide open so that the house pressure is whatever the main pressure is. As I said before, I personally have repaired a failed soldered copper joint that blew apart under these exact circumstances. Of course all of this is strictly my own opinion I certainly do not possess the knowledge necessary to determine the exact cause of this failure.

dougchips

I watch the myth Buster show too much. Could you take a sample and hook it to a compressor and see at what psi it blows? Then take a sample and fray it a little and see what psi it blows at.

I could only imagine what would happen if one blew and the ho's were in Florida for he winter.

Double-A

For those of you that may have missed it. Can you say fast closing solenoid?

With 130psig and the water hammer from the dishwasher fill valve snapping closed, I'm surprised the whole hot water supply didn't just jump out of the wall on this home. Its a good thing that water hammer shock wave never made it to the water heater.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

gitnerdun

MINI-RESTER
lav/sink
single fixture water hammer arrester

• Captured swivel nut with o-ring makes a soft compression joint that bottoms out with any compression stop for a quick and secure istallation.
• Install between stub out and valve on finish side of wall under sink or closet.

Here in Fla, these are code on all "quick closing valves". Skeptical about them at first, but they work well. Eliminating water hammer. I don't use the ss braid supply for that reason. I am sorry that happened to you, I hope insurance will cover it. I can't imagine pressures as high as you all seem to have to deal with.

JamesNLA

ummm, am I missing something here???

OK, ya got tons of pressure. Cool.
Why are there no regulators at the house entrance???

130+ in a house is absurd

smellslike$tome

Did you even read any of these posts before responding? Perhaps you might start with the first one where it says "I replaced the prv ...."