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"shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground

 
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:40 AM   #61
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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Amazing... all this time I thought I knew what I was doing. I come to this site and realize (according to a few) that I'm a "HACK" because I use Shark Bite connectors. Geeze, if only I had known.

I guess next, someone is going to tell me that only "HACKS" use CPVC .....
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #62
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


Hi...interesting thread. I'm new to this forum.

Not trying to step on any toes, but I'm a contractor in NM and I distrust ALL plumbing fittings by ALL manufacturers! There...I said it

I'm old and I've seen a lot: CPVC developing leaks at the glue joints in 60 days, copper eroding from the inside, imported copper with who-knows-what composition, class action lawsuits over the `80's polybute fiasco...and my most recent favorite: Q-Pex fittings (mine started failing in less than six months).

After nearly having my personal home destroyed by failed Q-Pex junk, I will only use a name brand of pex tubing, with Sharkbite (brand) fittings, no fittings of any sort where they cannot be accessed easily and non-destructively, and homerun-type systems whenever humanly possible.

I have to assume all plumbing fittings will fail at some point (history don't lie), so I want the fittings out where I can see them. If a sharkbite fitting fails, hopefully I can replace it quickly and easily.

And if what I do don't meet code, tuff s**t. In 40 years, the code man has never once offered to help me with a warranty issue because some quick-buck manufacturer (Zurn comes to mind) put a new product on the market without properly testing it.

Oddly enough, my customers appreciate my attitude!
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:47 PM   #63
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


My kind of guy,grumpy!
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:43 PM   #64
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


Naw...I'm not grumpy - just think we need to hold mfg's accountable for the junk they produce and the catastrophic damage they cause. Knowing they are willing to produce/sell junk prompts me to make provision for it on the job.

However...I could get grumpy pretty easily if I started talking about my insurance provider on the water-damaged house. I won't mention names, but they talk a lot about good hands.

I had to immediately vacate my home. My insurance company promptly sent me a check for $12,000 to cover motels, etc - which was good, except that my bank was going to hold the check `til it cleared - 10 days. When I asked why, my banker looked at me and said "there's really only one reason why a bank won't cash a check".

And that was just the beginning...
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:53 PM   #65
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


Yeah im an old tech kind of guy myself,just last week my neighbor gave me this thing called a cassette player for my old truck.
Said its even better than my 8 track player,I say that new stuff is for the birds!
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:28 PM   #66
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


Funny, Americans have had fresh-water plumbing for a hundred years now and we still can't agree on the best way to do it!

Two of the first three sharkbite-type fittings I used failed immediately, and so I thought they must be just more junk. I have since used hundreds of them without a single failure, going back four years or so.

If they all fail tomorrow, at least they'll be easy to replace.

Just my opinion, but anyone who does not use sharkbite due to the higher cost does not have a firm grasp on the dollar value of a minute.

But getting back to the original post - I don't think a plumber should ever worry about whether the electrical system is properly grounded. No offense intended to anyone, but I don't want to rely on a plumber to do anything electrical.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:59 PM   #67
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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Originally Posted by JackTheHack View Post
Funny, Americans have had fresh-water plumbing for a hundred years now and we still can't agree on the best way to do it!

Two of the first three sharkbite-type fittings I used failed immediately, and so I thought they must be just more junk. I have since used hundreds of them without a single failure, going back four years or so.

If they all fail tomorrow, at least they'll be easy to replace.

Just my opinion, but anyone who does not use sharkbite due to the higher cost does not have a firm grasp on the dollar value of a minute.

But getting back to the original post - I don't think a plumber should ever worry about whether the electrical system is properly grounded. No offense intended to anyone, but I don't want to rely on a plumber to do anything electrical.
I have seen, worked on, and admired water pipe systems in high rise buildings made of threaded red brass pipe that is well over a hundred years old, and still works just fine.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:53 AM   #68
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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Originally Posted by JackTheHack

But getting back to the original post - I don't think a plumber should ever worry about whether the electrical system is properly grounded. No offense intended to anyone, but I don't want to rely on a plumber to do anything electrical.
I disagree strongly.

All they need to worry about is a copper ground jumper. Atleast notify the customer of a missing one. It saves lives. Pool guys worry about grounding and bonding and there not sparkys. It saves lives... I worry about things being properly grounded and im no plumber or sparky by trade. Theres codes we need to know, learn, and understand. We cant just replace a water heater and notice theres a missing ground jumper and just walk away. Tell the customer....

All copper plumbing systems are grounded originally so people like phone companys use these pipes as a ground. Atleast by me.

When people who know nothing, mess with a part of the system like a water heater and do not install a copper jumper between hot and cold it is in violation of code and can kill people. Atleast by me.

There was a utility guy in my area that was replacing a water meter. The copper grounding jumper was missing. There was a fault in the system and the pipe was energized. When he removed that meter he now became a new path to ground. Got killed on the spot..
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:35 AM   #69
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheHack View Post
Funny, Americans have had fresh-water plumbing for a hundred years now and we still can't agree on the best way to do it!

Two of the first three sharkbite-type fittings I used failed immediately, and so I thought they must be just more junk. I have since used hundreds of them without a single failure, going back four years or so.

If they all fail tomorrow, at least they'll be easy to replace.

Just my opinion, but anyone who does not use sharkbite due to the higher cost does not have a firm grasp on the dollar value of a minute.

But getting back to the original post - I don't think a plumber should ever worry about whether the electrical system is properly grounded. No offense intended to anyone, but I don't want to rely on a plumber to do anything electrical.
Electrical/Hvac/Plumbing/Boilers here.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:34 AM   #70
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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Originally Posted by plummen

Electrical/Hvac/Plumbing/Boilers here.
/iron work/locksmith/window washer/accountant/house sitter/dog walker

You sound like a real expert
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:48 AM   #71
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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/iron work/locksmith/window washer/accountant/house sitter/dog walker

You sound like a real expert
Yeah its a few licenses to keep up with,Lots of continuing ed classes to deal with every year!
just finished walking the dog,I dont do windows though!
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:29 AM   #72
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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I have seen, worked on, and admired water pipe systems in high rise buildings made of threaded red brass pipe that is well over a hundred years old, and still works just fine.
I know...I've seen it as well, and I agree 100%. I'm not a metallurgist, but I'm sure there's a thousand ways to "cheap-out" brass. Today's brass likely ain't the same. Much of it comes from China and we all know the Chi-coms don't give a d*** about health and safety and product longevity.

And now the push is to take lead out of brass - which I'm not necessarily opposed to - but doing so will change the properties of the brass. Time will tell, but I don't have much confidence in the product or the R&D that goes into it.

The Zurn Q-Pex brass fittings that failed under my house were waaaaayyyy out of spec. Too brittle, too thin, and completely intolerant of hard water. Some simple pre-market, accelerated testing would have prevented billions of dollars in damages across this country.

Water is always trying to achieve a balance - it either wants to deposit minerals to metal, or take minerals out of metal. I'm guessing that exchange process is also affected when the water pipes provide an electrical path to ground.

Though I don't like the taste or the chemicals it gives up, I'll stick with pex tubing. I'll use the easiest-to-replace fittings I can find, and I'll leave them exposed so leaks are quickly and easily detected. I'll hope for the best but plan for the worst.

To me, installing a plumbing fitting inside a wall or underground makes about as much sense as welding the hood shut on your pickup. If you have to do it, you have to do it - but know that there's a price to pay down the road.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:44 AM   #73
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


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Electrical/Hvac/Plumbing/Boilers here.
I hear ya'...I was trouble-shooting 480 volt motor drives when I was a freshman in high school, started welding at 12 yoa, almost lost my fingers to a chain saw when I was in the fifth grade.

The Grace of God has played an important role in my life
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:49 PM   #74
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Re: "shark-bite" Fitting VS Water Pipe Ground


Life is just 1 big continuing ed program in my book,always something to learn.
Last week I showed a guy whos been in the plumbing trade 8yrs whos always done new construction how to pour/caulk a lead joint,I explained to him if he wants to do service work/remodels on older houses and remodels he was going to have to learn the technolgy that was used back when they were built.
Because theres not always going to be room/time/or money in the budget to just start cutting things out and replacing with new stuff

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