Responsibility

 
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:02 AM   #1
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Responsibility


I am continuing with my retirement home build and have demolished the existing home on the property. To connect the main sewer line I thought I would connect to the existing cast connection ( which is on my property ) instead of tearing up the street ( city property ). The local inspector wants a complete new connection into the 75 year old city pipe which is probably clay tile. Should I try and convince him I don't want the responsibility of the street line ??? Your opinions please and thank you.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:59 AM   #2
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Re: Responsibility


How do you plan on convincing an inspector?

Normally the municipality has laws that govern at what point the homeowner is responsible for on the sewer line and at what point the municipality is responsible. It normally isn't open to opinion. There is a good chance the inspector whants to do the right thing.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:31 AM   #3
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Re: Responsibility


The inspector is fresh out of university, no practical experience and is going by the book, his superior is off on an extended illness leave. Makes the job harder at this end but I also understand we all have to start somewhere in our jobs. I thank you for your opinions and will have to clarify if the local municipality has a policy / ruling of responsibility. I have been in commercial construction for 22 years and sometimes common sense rules over policy but I also realize sewer connections and associated concerns about sewer gas should be a priority. I am not a sewer expert so I was looking for practical experience from everyone here about what condition the main line sewer might be in , as it is 75 years old and maybe by staying 20 feet away from city property I would be avoiding a can of worms problem. BTW I am working in an older neighborhood where nobody has torn up the sewer / street in many years.
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:59 AM   #4
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Re: Responsibility


Not knowing where you are
makes it difficult to guess conditions.
One of us might be your neighbor,
maybe you're on a different continent.
In my part of the world, sewer mains were
concrete in 1935.
Before concrete they were brick, never
clay-vit.
For the most part, when they run the main,
they run laterals for each lot, which extend
to the edge of the right of way, so that
digging up the street and tapping the main
is held to a minimum.
Might be different where ever you are....
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:27 AM   #5
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Re: Responsibility


I understand what you are saying, it is what I want to do, tie in to the existing branch line but stay on my own property. Tearing up the street should only be needed if the branch line is not functional. To add to this the is a gas line running down the sidewalk another item I would rather not disturb as it is between my property and the city main.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:57 PM   #6
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Re: Responsibility


In California anyway you need to have an engineering contractor with an 'A' license do any work that would tear up any portion of a street.

LOOOOOOOTTTTTSSSSS of money around here. The last lateral connection I needed was $11k.

Andy.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:58 PM   #7
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Re: Responsibility


A physical inspection or a camera is the only real way to be sure. That of course means you need to dig a hole (I'm assuming no c.o. for the branch). Over the years I have dug up old sewers and although in this modern age PVC is the norm I have found pipes from that era to be near perfect. I have also seen them ruined but mostly by tree roots, or settling.

It's amazing how good the quality is, them old timers knew a thing or two.

If you feel good about the decision then hold your ground, just do it with class of course. New inspectors tend to be self-concious because they have no real world experience, not there fault just the way it is I guess.

If it was me I would find out who the last guy was that hooked one up next to you and use him as presidence. My guess is, when push comes to shove, you wouldn't be forced to go past your own private sewer. Find out down at the town hall what constitutes "private sewer", the city is responsible past that point (usually). Tax dollars is supposed to go for maintenance on pipe installed past the private sewer. Also, the city agreed to zone the lot for new construction and supply a, healthy, sewer into it.

Where they can get you is to simply raise the impact fee......Then you pay no matter what.

A good plumbing contractor in your area would be an asset for you for advice. Take the inspector out to lunch, that's what I do.

Good luck!

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Old 08-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #8
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Re: Responsibility


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
Not knowing where you are
makes it difficult to guess conditions.
One of us might be your neighbor,
maybe you're on a different continent.
In my part of the world, sewer mains were
concrete in 1935.
Before concrete they were brick, never
clay-vit.
For the most part, when they run the main,
they run laterals for each lot, which extend
to the edge of the right of way, so that
digging up the street and tapping the main
is held to a minimum.
Might be different where ever you are....
Chicago is chock full of 60" clay city sewers, anything bigger than that is brick, concrete is used for storm sewers and force mains, there are very few force mains in the city or immediate suburbs though, I can only think of two.
In most towns the city is responsible for anything in the right of way, beyond that the HO is responsible.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:06 PM   #9
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Re: Responsibility


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
Not knowing where you are
makes it difficult to guess conditions.
One of us might be your neighbor,
maybe you're on a different continent.
In my part of the world, sewer mains were
concrete in 1935.
Before concrete they were brick, never
clay-vit.
For the most part, when they run the main,
they run laterals for each lot, which extend
to the edge of the right of way, so that
digging up the street and tapping the main
is held to a minimum.
Might be different where ever you are....
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpider View Post
Chicago is chock full of 60" clay city sewers, anything bigger than that is brick, concrete is used for storm sewers and force mains, there are very few force mains in the city or immediate suburbs though, I can only think of two.
In most towns the city is responsible for anything in the right of way, beyond that the HO is responsible.
I knew it would be different
where you are!
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #10
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Re: Responsibility


So just to cap off this thread, my plan to stay on my property to do the connection is acceptable and probably the right thing to do ???? Let's take a one word answer poll: YES or NO. Poll closes in 24 hrs
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:51 PM   #11
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Re: Responsibility


Yes
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:41 PM   #12
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Re: Responsibility


As Mike said you need to camera the line to find out the condition of the line from the front of your property where you plan on connecting to. If it has problems then yes it should be replaced, if it is fine then use the camera inspection DVD to prove your case to the inspector. If you go over his head you will need the DVD to prove it anyway.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:24 AM   #13
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Re: Responsibility


One thing to keep in mind here is if it's bad tthe only one that REALLY pays the price is you. Imagine hooking it up and later finding out it's bad.

In the years I have been plumbing I can say with all honesty that the invention of the full color sewer camera is one of the best. It's not cheap but you will get the information you seek.

I realize I'm a plumber and I'm biased when I say you should call a qualified "sewer" guy but it's true. I do mostly inside repairs these days but there is no substitute for a good sewer guy with all the tools and knowledge he has available to help you make a good decision. You don't want to make a decision like this without him. I could write a book about the horror stories I've seen and I doubt any good plumber would disagree. Guessing at something that's underground can get you in a world of hurt.

The cost to find out wouldn't be that much all things considered. I would try and set it up so at the time of hook-up you have a guy with a camera ready to go, just give him a time frame to work with. But be prepared to make the city pay for the street work because that is rarely a HO responsibility. Just be smart about it, sounds like you are and have some good experience so I'm sure your headed in the right direction.

Mike
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:03 PM   #14
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Re: Responsibility


So I did the right thing and called out a veteran plumber, sewer contractor and he is also a gas fitter. He is going to go back to the engineering department of our SMALL town city as he says the best place to go in is on my property at the line and not disturb or add another line in, something about needing a saddle at the point of entry plus a few other real life reasons that he said some of these new engineers just don't understand so I guess we will wait for the verdict.............
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:15 PM   #15
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Re: Responsibility


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie 2 View Post
So just to cap off this thread, my plan to stay on my property to do the connection is acceptable and probably the right thing to do ???? Let's take a one word answer poll: YES or NO. Poll closes in 24 hrs

Depends on your location, If you are on Mars, no. If Earth yes.

Around here you pay a substantial impact/tap fee which covers the cost of line from right of way to main.

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