Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve

 
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:15 AM   #21
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Old 01-11-2018, 10:08 AM   #22
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Second picture in Post #11.
I've seen pictures but not in person. They are typically plumbed with a stubout that's capped. After the test they are cut and the nut/ferrule is installed. Pex is a different story though. The nuts don't strip out.

I like it better because you are putting pressure on and off the pipe connection in the wall with the threaded end, which is the reason for the nuts, I assume.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:47 PM   #23
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Hi folks,

I recently replaced a leaky shut-off valve for my toilet. I'm not a licensed plumber, so I'd like to know whether what I did is what an expert would have done. (This was a repair in my own home. Since I'm not a licensed plumber, I don't do plumbing work for my business.)

After removing the compression fitting, the 1.5" stub-out that remained had two compression-ring indentations in the copper pipe. I was planning to install a press-fit, 1/4-turn shut-off valve. I didn't feel comfortable that the fit would be good, given the compression-ring indentations. I cut off the indented portion of the copper stub-out, sweated on a coupler and a new stub-out, cut the stub-out to a more reasonable length, and installed the press-fit shut-off valve. Before attaching the new valve, the stub-out was approx. 3.0"-3.25" (instead of 1.5" as it had been). Everything is leak-proof & working fine, and it has been for a few weeks now.

So here are my questions:
1. Is this what an expert would have done? Or would the press-fit fitting have been just fine if installed over the old indented stub-out? In other words, did I make the repair harder than it needed to be (again!)?
2. Would the repair be up to code? If it matters, I live in the state of WA, in the Seattle metro area.

Thanks!

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All you people and plumbers using one-quarter turn shut off valves are off your rockers.

You cannot repair a 1/2 turn valve when it leaks. You have to remove the valve and toss it in the trash. You can repair conventional washer-type valves and you can replace every part without having to remove the body.

On 1/4 turn valves there is no packing nut that can be tightened to stop the step from leaking. The valves have a tiny O-ring on the stem. All rubber deteriorates. Inevitably, the O-ring leaks and it causes damage to the cabinets, floors, walls and results in a $50,000 mold remediation project. All this damage over a $5 valve.

I just went to a job last week where a 1/4 turn valve leaked. The water devastated the kitchen cabinet and it destroyed and discolored a real marble-tiled floor.

Conventional washer-type angle stops have large packing nut gaskets and I have never seen one leak. Even if the packing nut is loose the stem will not leak when the valve is turned all the way on because the stem compresses against the packing nut gasket.

A 1/4 turn valve is either on, or it is off, but you cannot crank the handle harder when the valve leaks. Conventional valves have regular washers and you can crank the valve off until you break the handle off.

Some idiot installed 1/4 turn valves on an apartment building. Three months later, I wanted to replace a kitchen faucet. The 1/4 turn valve leaks and I had to shut the entire 18-unit apartment building off to replace a 3-month old 1/4 turn valve. That would never have happened with a conventional washer-type valve.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:43 PM   #24
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


This is a quarter turn angle stop, I have been installing them for about twenty years, in that time I have never had one leak.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:55 PM   #25
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Originally Posted by daffysplumbing View Post
All you people and plumbers using one-quarter turn shut off valves are off your rockers.

You cannot repair a 1/2 turn valve when it leaks. You have to remove the valve and toss it in the trash. You can repair conventional washer-type valves and you can replace every part without having to remove the body.

On 1/4 turn valves there is no packing nut that can be tightened to stop the step from leaking. The valves have a tiny O-ring on the stem. All rubber deteriorates. Inevitably, the O-ring leaks and it causes damage to the cabinets, floors, walls and results in a $50,000 mold remediation project. All this damage over a $5 valve.

I just went to a job last week where a 1/4 turn valve leaked. The water devastated the kitchen cabinet and it destroyed and discolored a real marble-tiled floor.

Conventional washer-type angle stops have large packing nut gaskets and I have never seen one leak. Even if the packing nut is loose the stem will not leak when the valve is turned all the way on because the stem compresses against the packing nut gasket.

A 1/4 turn valve is either on, or it is off, but you cannot crank the handle harder when the valve leaks. Conventional valves have regular washers and you can crank the valve off until you break the handle off.

Some idiot installed 1/4 turn valves on an apartment building. Three months later, I wanted to replace a kitchen faucet. The 1/4 turn valve leaks and I had to shut the entire 18-unit apartment building off to replace a 3-month old 1/4 turn valve. That would never have happened with a conventional washer-type valve.


Don't use $5 stops. The ones I use are closer to $15.

I've repaired hundreds of leaks, and none have resulted in $50,000 mold projects. Just don't let it leak for 7 years straight.

Marble can't get wet??

Cranking down a handle 'till it breaks is a professional plumbing technique?

And someone built an apartment complex, without individual shut-offs for the units? And it passed inspection, and got a CO??


And you're a plumber??




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Old 01-13-2018, 10:56 PM   #26
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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This is a quarter turn angle stop, I have been installing them for about twenty years, in that time I have never had one leak.
What is that, a Jaclo??





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Old 01-13-2018, 11:01 PM   #27
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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What is that, a Jaclo??
Dornbracht.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:01 AM   #28
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Originally Posted by daffysplumbing View Post
You cannot repair a 1/2 turn valve when it leaks. You have to remove the valve and toss it in the trash. You can repair conventional washer-type valves and you can replace every part without having to remove the body.
Who would do that for a $15 part? Ball valves have been around for a long time and I've not seen or heard of them being more prone to leaking.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:07 AM   #29
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


All you people buying horseless carriages are off your rockers. They have all those moving parts, and if you throw a wheel; shooting them doesn't solve anything. Young wipper snappers!
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:08 AM   #30
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Who would do that for a $15 part? Ball valves have been around for a long time and I've not seen or heard of them being more prone to leaking.
Because they're not prone to leaking, corrosion or seizing like globe or gate valves.

And yes, globe valves can "sometimes" be repaired, but i'll have a new ball valve sweated in before daffy can count his ducks

BTW, ball valves use ptfe or silicone seals, typically with stainless balls, far superior to a gate or globe which use rubber seats.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:14 PM   #31
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post


Don't use $5 stops. The ones I use are closer to $15.

I've repaired hundreds of leaks, and none have resulted in $50,000 mold projects. Just don't let it leak for 7 years straight.

Marble can't get wet??

Cranking down a handle 'till it breaks is a professional plumbing technique?

And someone built an apartment complex, without individual shut-offs for the units? And it passed inspection, and got a CO??


And you're a plumber??




Delta
The water went underneath the marble floor and there must have been some sort of bacterial reaction that caused the marble to discolor so the top of the marble looks like an oil stand on about a 3 x 4 feet section of floor.

When hot water leaks it takes less than 3 days to have enough mold that an entire house needs to be gutted. Around here, if a floor gets wet for one minute the restoration companies rip out the kitchen cabinets and the floors. Then, we have to get everything tested for lead, asbestos and if we see any mold we need to get mold testing. It is not uncommon for mold remediation companies to get more than $50,000 for jobs where I don't think any work needs to be done.

Of course the priority and need for a job depends on who is paying for the job. If a homeowner sees mold growing in his home he won't usually pay a contractor to remove it, but when an insurance company is going to pay then the customers have an entirely different point of view regarding how dangerous and unhealthy mold is.

And, I hate it when people tell me that they never saw a 1/4 turn valve leak. I have one that leaked sitting on my desk, right now. I am going to hang it from the ceiling on a string so it hits my employees in the head every day.

I never saw a $15 angle stop. I think we pay a little less than $6 for an angle stop.
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:32 AM   #32
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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What is that, a Jaclo??





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Jaclo. hahahahaha

That is the only company that I know that knowingly sells defective products. They don't even make their own valves.
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:46 AM   #33
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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And, I hate it when people tell me that they never saw a 1/4 turn valve leak. I have one that leaked sitting on my desk, right now. I am going to hang it from the ceiling on a string so it hits my employees in the head every day.
Why not fill a sack with them and beat your employees with it. Anything can leak at some point so your scare tactics might work on some of the uninformed but it might alienate you too. You must be a joy to work for.
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:19 PM   #34
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Why not fill a sack with them and beat your employees with it. Anything can leak at some point so your scare tactics might work on some of the uninformed but it might alienate you too. You must be a joy to work for.
this is the culprit that caused a lot of damage.

I don't get up in the morning to win popularity contests. In my more than 50 years of plumbing the only conventional angle stops that ever leaked were those that idiots connected to copper mip adapters with teflon tape. That is another problem I can't stop idiots from doing. I tell then not to use teflon tape because the fittings tighten until they crack. I had one job where my plumber put teflon tape on two brass drop ear elbows with brass nipples. Both drop ear elbow cracked at different times about 3 and 6 months after the job was completed. A few months later, an angle stop body with teflon tape cracked.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:58 AM   #35
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


That's a very corroded valve, gee, I wonder if the innards are corroded too. Nothing is invulnerable, could be a cheap part and bad water. Never saw a the others leak? Seriously? I use dope and tape and never broke anything. Your opinions just don't match my reality.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:48 PM   #36
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Eerily similar looking valves at my own place that were installed in 2007 during a remodel and they look and operate like new.

Since I'm a stickler for organized files on all projects I do, here's the receipt for 3ea. R-15 CP valves from DN Suppy Corp from 3/23/07 at a cost of $3.70 ea.

So for 11 years old, inflation certainly has taken it's toll but the valves remain the same.

Now that I've thoroughly jinxed myself, I'll expect my house to flood in misery tomorrow whilst at work fixing other peoples leaks

Joking aside...this thread has enlightened me to change out that braided filler hose on the john as I normally recommend them at 10 years.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:03 PM   #37
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Eerily similar looking valves at my own place that were installed in 2007 during a remodel and they look and operate like new.

Since I'm a stickler for organized files on all projects I do, here's the receipt for 3ea. R-15 CP valves from DN Suppy Corp from 3/23/07 at a cost of $3.70 ea.

So for 11 years old, inflation certainly has taken it's toll but the valves remain the same.

Now that I've thoroughly jinxed myself, I'll expect my house to flood in misery tomorrow whilst at work fixing other peoples leaks

Joking aside...this thread has enlightened me to change out that braided filler hose on the john as I normally recommend them at 10 years.
The fact you have a receipt from a reno of your own house in 2007 proves you have a sickness.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:12 PM   #38
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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That's a very corroded valve, gee, I wonder if the innards are corroded too. Nothing is invulnerable, could be a cheap part and bad water. Never saw a the others leak? Seriously? I use dope and tape and never broke anything. Your opinions just don't match my reality.
Strange, you never had problems with Teflon tape causing fittings to crack? Maybe, you don't do the volume of much plumbing we do. I have seen no less than 100 plumbers do copper repipes, connect the copper mip to Price Pfister tub and shower faucet union and anywhere from a month to several months later the Price Pfister union fittings cracked. Then, of course, we have to re-open the customer's walls to make the repair that never would have happened if pipe dope was used.

Another problem with Teflon tape when you use pipe dope for fittings and the fitting has a tiny leak the fitting will seal itself within a few days. When using Teflon tape and the fitting leaks the joint cannot corrode and the leak will never seal itself resulting in an eternal leak.

I don't stock 1/4 turn valves and my plumbers are not allowed to put a roll of Teflon tape on their trucks because I am ultimately liable for damage these items cause.

There is one more serious problem I find with plumbers who use Teflon tape. When the Teflon tape is applied beyond the threads the tape gets brittle, breaks off and gets permanently stuck inside valves and faucets. It is sometimes impossible to get the Teflon out of some faucets like the kitchen faucets with the pull-out spouts.

I always hated ball valves for water mains and water heaters because there was some inferior crap made several years ago, but today it seems like the valves are made with a better-quality brass. I was always an advocate for NIBCO bronze gate valves with non-rising stems. But, like 1/4 turn angle stops, the non-rising stems have O-rings rather than packing nuts with large packing washers and after a few years the stems leak resulting in either the need to replace the guts, or replace the entire valve. Today, I use only ball valves.

It is strange how contractors like different products even when I have nothing but trouble with some of them. For example, we purchased several cases of ABS 2-part kitchen wastes and every single one we installed leaked. The ABS was soft and more like rubber. But, what bothers me the most is the supply houses always tell me they never had a complaint, or I am the only person who every complained.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:12 AM   #39
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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Strange, you never had problems with Teflon tape causing fittings to crack?
There's nothing strange about it. I don't over tighten fittings.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:40 AM   #40
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Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


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There's nothing strange about it. I don't over tighten fittings.
Or wad up too much tape.

I had an owner one time tell me they only terminated cables with push type connectors because snap-n-seal were too difficult for their techs. My answer...get new techs.

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