Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-10-2018, 01:39 PM   #1
Member
 
svankirk's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman & Light Remodeling
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 246

Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Hi folks,

I recently replaced a leaky shut-off valve for my toilet. I'm not a licensed plumber, so I'd like to know whether what I did is what an expert would have done. (This was a repair in my own home. Since I'm not a licensed plumber, I don't do plumbing work for my business.)

After removing the compression fitting, the 1.5" stub-out that remained had two compression-ring indentations in the copper pipe. I was planning to install a press-fit, 1/4-turn shut-off valve. I didn't feel comfortable that the fit would be good, given the compression-ring indentations. I cut off the indented portion of the copper stub-out, sweated on a coupler and a new stub-out, cut the stub-out to a more reasonable length, and installed the press-fit shut-off valve. Before attaching the new valve, the stub-out was approx. 3.0"-3.25" (instead of 1.5" as it had been). Everything is leak-proof & working fine, and it has been for a few weeks now.

So here are my questions:
1. Is this what an expert would have done? Or would the press-fit fitting have been just fine if installed over the old indented stub-out? In other words, did I make the repair harder than it needed to be (again!)?
2. Would the repair be up to code? If it matters, I live in the state of WA, in the Seattle metro area.

Thanks!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
svankirk is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 01-10-2018, 05:49 PM   #2
Pro
 
MarkJames's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman Services
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,989
Rewards Points: 12,383

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Was the "indented thing" the ferrule? I leave the ferrule and nut, and use them on the new valve.

Advertisement

MarkJames is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:10 PM   #3
Renaissance Man
 
superseal's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry, Carpentry and everything else.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 6,608
Rewards Points: 5,310

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
Was the "indented thing" the ferrule? I leave the ferrule and nut, and use them on the new valve.
Once "compression" has been made, your not supposed to re-use the ferrule. You can get way with it sometimes if installed correctly the first time around and wasn't over tightened, but should be viewed as bad practice.
__________________
"Under promise, over deliver and all that!" JBM
supersealconstruction.com

https://www.facebook.com/Superseal-C...2699413750013/
superseal is offline  
   
 
Old 01-10-2018, 06:14 PM   #4
Renaissance Man
 
superseal's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry, Carpentry and everything else.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 6,608
Rewards Points: 5,310

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


My only question for you Steve is why after the effort of sweating on an extension, why didn't you just sweat a valve on?
__________________
"Under promise, over deliver and all that!" JBM
supersealconstruction.com

https://www.facebook.com/Superseal-C...2699413750013/
superseal is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to superseal For This Useful Post:
Inner10 (01-10-2018), NJGC (01-13-2018), Tinstaafl (01-10-2018)
Old 01-10-2018, 06:22 PM   #5
Member
 
svankirk's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman & Light Remodeling
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 246

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Hi guys,

Just to clarify: the indented rings in the copper stub-out were the depressions left by each side of the old compression sleeve/ferrule.

I removed the old ferrule like this:

https://cdn2.tmbi.com/TFH/Step-By-St..._SHUTOF_08.jpg

and the depressions were like the one shown here (only one is visible in the photo):

https://cdn2.tmbi.com/TFH/Step-By-St..._SHUTOF_10.jpg

I didn't want to slide a Shark-Bite-style (i.e. push-to-connect) fitting over the two "indent rings", so I cut off this portion of the copper stub-out and finished the repair as described previously.

Hopefully that clears things up. Let me know, if not.


Thanks for the help!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
svankirk is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:30 PM   #6
Pro
 
MarkJames's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman Services
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,989
Rewards Points: 12,383

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Next time leave the ferrule and nut.

Point take, SuperSeal (but it usually is fine).
MarkJames is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:31 PM   #7
Member
 
svankirk's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman & Light Remodeling
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 246

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by superseal View Post
My only question for you Steve is why after the effort of sweating on an extension, why didn't you just sweat a valve on?
Well, the short-but-humbling answer is that I'm a plumbing newbie and didn't think of it. Which is why I figured I'd check with the experts.

So it sounds like a better option would have been to sweat on a valve, too?

In that case, would it have looked like this:
1. cut off "damaged" portion of copper stub out (as I did)
2. Sweat valve onto new stub out (do this in the garage, rather than in the cramped space under the toilet)
3. Sweat coupler onto new stub & valve combo (also done in the garage)
4. Sweat coupler/stub/valve combo onto stub out under toilet.

Is that what I should have done?

Thanks!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
svankirk is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:34 PM   #8
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 23,513
Rewards Points: 12,086

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by svankirk View Post
Well, the short-but-humbling answer is that I'm a plumbing newbie and didn't think of it. Which is why I figured I'd check with the experts.

So it sounds like a better option would have been to sweat on a valve, too?

In that case, would it have looked like this:
1. cut off "damaged" portion of copper stub out (as I did)
2. Sweat valve onto new stub out (do this in the garage, rather than in the cramped space under the toilet)
3. Sweat coupler onto new stub & valve combo (also done in the garage)
4. Sweat coupler/stub/valve combo onto stub out under toilet.

Is that what I should have done?

Thanks!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
I think what he means is why bother sweating on the extension? If you had a long enough stub to burn on a coupler why not just put the valve on and save the 10 bucks on the shark bit valve?
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:50 PM   #9
Member
 
svankirk's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman & Light Remodeling
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 246

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
I think what he means is why bother sweating on the extension? If you had a long enough stub to burn on a coupler why not just put the valve on and save the 10 bucks on the shark bit valve?
Ohhhhhhh... OK. So I should have used a "sweat valve" and put it on right over the old stub?

In that case, should I have cut off the old stub because of the depression rings, or could I have sweat a new valve on right over it?

Also, could you point me to such a "sweat valve" so I can see an example. I did a quick search and saw lots of tub/shower valves, but didn't see much for a toilet shut-off.

Thanks - I really appreciate it.

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
svankirk is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:09 PM   #10
Renaissance Man
 
superseal's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry, Carpentry and everything else.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 6,608
Rewards Points: 5,310

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Here's a few...
Attached Thumbnails
Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-brasscraft-shut-off-valves-ktr19x-c1-64_1000.jpg   Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-r14-c-5.jpg  
Attached Images
 
__________________
"Under promise, over deliver and all that!" JBM
supersealconstruction.com

https://www.facebook.com/Superseal-C...2699413750013/
superseal is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:24 PM   #11
Renaissance Man
 
superseal's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry, Carpentry and everything else.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 6,608
Rewards Points: 5,310

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


I like threading nipples as well ...still superior to any sharkchit fitting.
Works on the same premise as using a drop ell for a showerhead or HH body spray.
Attached Thumbnails
Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-bathroom-pics-022.jpg   Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-bathroom-pics-024.jpg   Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-bathroom-pics-012.jpg   Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-img_1229.jpg   Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-img_1230.jpg  

Replacement of toilet shut-off valve-img_1417.jpg  
__________________
"Under promise, over deliver and all that!" JBM
supersealconstruction.com

https://www.facebook.com/Superseal-C...2699413750013/
superseal is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:32 PM   #12
Member
 
svankirk's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman & Light Remodeling
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 246

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Nice. Thanks for the visual. I really appreciate it.

So regarding my remaining questions:
1. Is there a code requirement as to how far the valve or stub can stick out?
2. If sweating on a valve like the pictures in the previous post, would you go right over the old stub, indents/depressions and all? Or would you cut off the "damaged" portion of the stub before sweating on the valve?

And I guess a third question would be this:

3. Would a REAL plumber have just put on a new compression valve rather than sweating anything? If so, would you just re-use the ferrule? (Ignore the latter question if it'll stir up a hornets nest. )

Thanks guys!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
svankirk is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:34 PM   #13
Member
 
svankirk's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman & Light Remodeling
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 246

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Wow, Superseal - that looks way nicer than what I ended up with!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
svankirk is offline  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:19 AM   #14
This space for lease
 
RangoWA's Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: WA State
Posts: 5,309
Rewards Points: 4,628

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by svankirk View Post
Would a REAL plumber have just put on a new compression valve rather than sweating anything? If so, would you just re-use the ferrule?
I'm not buying the sweating on a valve. Seems very impractical to me. If that was the way to go that's the way they'd be when new and I have as of yet to see it. Every valve I've seen has been threaded. I haven't seen every home obviously but it wouldn't be the norm around here. I've replaced all mine with no issues.
RangoWA is offline  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:31 AM   #15
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 23,513
Rewards Points: 12,086

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


There are a zillion ways to skin a cat, and all will out last the crappy flex line that goes to the toilet.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:02 AM   #16
This space for lease
 
RangoWA's Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: WA State
Posts: 5,309
Rewards Points: 4,628

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
There are a zillion ways to skin a cat, and all will out last the crappy flex line that goes to the toilet.
But there's the standard method that I've seen 100% of the time so far. Installed many in new home construction in the 80s. Braided flex lines are also the norm here.
RangoWA is offline  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:40 AM   #17
Pro
 
B.Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Midwest
Posts: 897
Rewards Points: 1,162

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Unless it's pretty old all they use is compression here. Judging by the age of things I've worked on I would say that they started with threaded, then sweat, and now compression. When I replace a compression valve I usually replace the nut and sleeve. 90% of the time I'm replacing the cabinet and I want the hole to be pipe-sized, not nut-sized.

Edit: I do think it's interesting how different methods trend in different parts of the country.
__________________
Home Designer Series Software
B.Johnson is online now  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:09 AM   #18
This space for lease
 
RangoWA's Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: WA State
Posts: 5,309
Rewards Points: 4,628

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


By threaded I mean a compression ring with a threaded nut. I've never seen a valve threaded directly to a pipe in a home for kitchen or bath angle stops. Water heaters, yes.
RangoWA is offline  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:33 AM   #19
Pro
 
kirkdc's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling (mostly kitch/bath)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cripple Creek. CO
Posts: 661
Rewards Points: 2,796

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


I use the old ferrel and compression nut, never a problem.

Braided lines are the norm in CO. ( at least where I am)

Last edited by kirkdc; 01-11-2018 at 08:35 AM.
kirkdc is offline  
Old 01-11-2018, 09:13 AM   #20
Pro
 
B.Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Midwest
Posts: 897
Rewards Points: 1,162

Re: Replacement Of Toilet Shut-off Valve


Quote:
Originally Posted by RangoWA View Post
By threaded I mean a compression ring with a threaded nut. I've never seen a valve threaded directly to a pipe in a home for kitchen or bath angle stops. Water heaters, yes.
Second picture in Post #11.

Advertisement

__________________
Home Designer Series Software
B.Johnson is online now  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
90 yr old window replacement? coworx Windows, Siding and Doors 3 04-26-2013 09:36 PM
Sloan flush valve wireless Plumbing 6 08-07-2012 02:37 AM
Stop Valve - Stem Replacement Only ? We Fix Houses Plumbing 3 06-18-2012 06:57 PM
Easy, toilet replacement fireguy Plumbing 21 05-12-2011 08:03 AM
Toilet seal gnxtc2 Plumbing 6 04-01-2011 03:25 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?