PVC Pipeing

lizzydog

If code allows, can a whole house be piped with PVC ?
I know all about PEX. If you can or can not>Tell me why.

Thanks,
lizzydog

MechanicalDVR

Do you mean potable water and sewer as well? I have seen engineered structures piped in all plastic, pvc drainage and cpvc waterlines. I am just old school with plastic water lines, I won't install them for potable water.
We do cpvc for water source heat pump loops all the time.

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knothole

Around here, 98% of all water piping is done with CPVC,(the rest is copper) and all sewer piping is done with PVC. We are starting to hear a little about PEX in this area, but not seeing any yet.

Danny

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MechanicalDVR

Pex just reminds me of a Winnebago and the smell of garden hose water.

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lizzydog

Mechanicaldvr-----Other than being old school why would you not use them for potable water. Thanks for the replies.

lizzydog

Teetorbilt

The old stuff used to leach chemicals into the water and caused problems with children, pregnant women, et al. They may have fixed this but I haven't seen it done since the early '70's. PVC can also become brittle under the right circumstances (exposure to certain chemicals), I wouldn't trust it. PEX either as I have seen some very interesting failures without solutions involving Polyethelyne tubing.

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MechanicalDVR

I don't like the smell or taste of water from plastic pipe, I feel if it changes the smell or taste it must be having some type of reaction with the water. Also, when I cut a fitting into plastic pipe on a job I often see sediment and staining inside that I don't see inside the copper on the same jobs. I have always used copper for potable in my own homes and I have had several, and always did well on resale with the improvements I have made.

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Ron The Plumber

UPC does not allow PVC for water distro inside the house, only allowed outside and cold water supply only.

Grumpyplumber

Having used both, I can honestly say PEX won't gain momentum over CPVC in your area.
Here the "plastic revolution" has forced us to bid lower with plastic, or go hungry... and I only see one distinct advantage with PEX...it "reportedly" doesn't burst when frozen...it "reportedly" doesn't sweat either, but there was a fella here a month or two past complaining that it was sweating bullets.

PEX needs special tools to adapt to fittings and the tools take two hands...while you attempt to steady the "garden hose" nature of the PEX.
I found it cumbersome enough to actually prefer copper in terms of labor.

I find CPVC to be too good to be true, but then, over 40 years and still holding...guess I can't argue with that.

Herk

PVC isn't rated for hot water. It will burst. CPVC is fine. I don't particularly like glued plastic. I don't like the time-consuming glue/primer application; I don't like waiting hours for it to cure; I don't like having to cut out several close-together joints and replace them all if a leak shows up.

On the other hand, I've been using PEX and PB for years, and have yet to see a crimped PEX joint leak, nor have I seen one burst from freezing. It's recommended practice to check each and every joint with a go/no go guage to make sure the crimper is working and you didn't forget to crimp one.

Making plastic pipe look good is a skill, just as making copper pipe look good is a skill. PEX needs more hangers and protection. Manifold systems work well to balance the pressure and prevent scalds or chills in the shower. You can make repairs with dripping water, which can be very time-consuming with copper. It doesn't rust, corrode, wear, or deteriorate. And with a manifold system, there are no fittings between the manifold and the fixture - everything is accessible to service or replace except in-the-wall tub connections. And there should be an opening for those.

PEX is cleaner - none of that burned flux smell. No trips to the eye doctor for caustic chemicals. And you don't burn any houses down.

MechanicalDVR

As for cutting out groups of fittings for a leak, if you don't glue them up socket to socket you would never have that problem. I always try to leave 2x socket take up between fittings just for future problems.

I can appreciate your positive position on PEX but being fair, I have never burned flux to a point it smelled up anyplace I was working, nor have I or anyone I know been to the eye Dr. from chemical burns and certianly I have never burned down a house nor has any plumber/pipefitter I have ever worked with or heard of. No need to exagerate the facts here. Some people like plastic some don't, I am in the latter group. I think plastic came about to make piping installs easier, to drop the price of having real plumbers and pipefitters install it.

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mahlere

there is a 20,000 sq foot house around the corner from me that was burned to the ground by Plumbers.

the house was under construction for 3+ yrs, they were weeks away from finishing....couple of plumbers were working on a Sat...1/2 hr after they left, the house burned up.

MechanicalDVR

Sucks to be them. Where was that?

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Celtic

What happens when a PEX line freezes?
How long until water service can be restored?

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MechanicalDVR

Good question, it isn't like you can put a thawing machine on it. You might have to wait for the spring thaw in someplaces.

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Celtic

Just something to think about

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Herk

To MechanicalDVR:

As to butting plastic fittings together, it was a problem I had about 40 years ago, when plastic was just showing up. I'm usually quite careful when I have to use it these days.

As to burning down a house, I've never done it, but I've certainly worried about it. I carry a water bottle that I fill before doing any repairs, and soak the surrounding wood just to be safe.

About 30 years ago in some parts of Idaho, several houses were burned down by apprentices, so the story goes, and the insurance companies panicked, not wanting to insure anyone installing copper. So many companies at that time switched back to galvanized!

You may not burn flux enough to stink up a place, but your clothing probably smells pretty bad after doing a copper job, and you might as well throw those gloves away. PEX is easier to install without gloves than with them.

I certainly agree with you that more plumbing was left for plumbers to do before plastic came on the scene. And it took a lot more work, so we were guaranteed more hours. We were also guaranteed to be broken down before we retired. But plastic is here. It works. It lasts. And I've seen a lot more copper failures than PEX failures. (Can't say I've actually ever seen a PEX failure . . . ) I still get to repair and replace copper, and still use copper for my tub and shower valve assemblies, but far prefer using PEX.

As to glued pipe, as long as you have fresh glue and primer and have the time to wait for it to set properly, you've got a good chance of it working fine. But when it freezes, it's brittle and it shatters. If you have access to the better CPVC fittings with brass threads, that's a plus, too. (I haven't seen them around here.)

In addition, I should point out that I do residential work, not commercial. If I were doing commercial, I'd no doubt be using more copper.

Song Dog

I have been told that Pex will get to 3 X's its size before it busts. I haven't seen it but I have a peice of 3/4 and 1/2 full of water and capped on both ends in my freezer. They have been there for about 2 years. I want to add a couple of valves and put some under pressure and then freeze it, to see how it reacts.
I was a die hard for copper until I was introduced to pex. I piddled with it and then started using it alot and I like it.

In Christ,

Song Dog

Celtic

That's great ...but how would one defrost a frozen PEX line ?

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mahlere

Rt 537 in Colts Neck. They are rebuilding it now. Across from the orchards...The very orchards that grow the fruits for the Pies that Celtic loves so much...