Pex Vs Copper: Meter To House

Driftwood

Also, If You go pex,Id stepp up to 1" . Not much more $. 3/4" pex has slightley
less inside Diameter than 3/4" copper !!!!!!!

MALCO.New.York

Yes! And K rolls out nearly as easily and you do not have to purchase special tools. But then again, since you are not a Plumber, you have no need to concern yourself with the installation process........

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nhmaster3015

Most municipal water in the North East is now run with polyethylene plastic pipe from the main to the house. Pex is a fine choice though if there is concern about expansion and contraction wearing on the pipe it can be sleeved. Is this main run to a well or the city water supply? If the city's involved then it's probably going to be their call. As for running copper underground, it has a fairly high failure rate due to corrosion and puncture also. Nothing lasts forever and in the case of pex I'll bet it will last longer than any of us do.

KillerToiletSpider

We are rehabbing a house that was built in 1905, it still has the original lead water service, and it works fine. Can you cite any tests that have been done on PEX that show it can perform that well over that length of time without ever being serviced? More explicitly, tests that have been done in soil that goes through the freeze and thaw cycle every year for a hundred years? Because if they exist I haven't been able to find them.

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nhmaster3015

www.uponor.com Pex has been in continuous unfailing service in europe for over 40 years now. Uponor has plenty of test data to back up their product including a zero product failure record of their pex c. Copper was wonderful stuff in it's day, but product cost and installation time are rapidly making it a thing of the past. As for the lead service pipe, I have seen lead and for that matter galvanized that are still in service after 70 + years also. But that's the exception.

MALCO.New.York

Pex is Polyethylene. As is your milk jug. As is a buncha that new decking...That shrinks and warps and buckles if not PRECISELY installed.

Did a service and waste for 20 units in West Grove, PA. two years ago. K copper for supply and PVC for DWV.

Anything less is, IMNSHO, incorrect.

And Yes!!!! I was under someones VALID MP license!!!

Not really! There was a MP on the jobsite, but he had NOTHING to do with the excavator I was working for.......The local inspector did not give hoot as long as the work was correct!!!!!

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MALCO.New.York

Would you look at this....Not only does NH love to debate with GC's, but with other Pipers as well!!!!!

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KillerToiletSpider

40 years in Europe, and after 10 years here it has had two CAS that I know of, and perhaps more. Now the question is, how many failures have there been in Europe? hard to tell since they lack the tort form law that we have in this country.

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plumberman

I guess I was brought up old school. Copper all the way

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Driftwood

Can You legally pull plumb. permits.and install?

MALCO.New.York

They would not even let me in the office!!!! Never mind pull a permit!!!

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Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
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reveivl

I don't see that it matters. If the iron is full such that there is no water flow through it, then what does it matter that the iron itself is ok? The pipe still has to be replaced. A bunch of iron I've taken out has been so corroded after 40 years that you could break it off at the elbows with your hands. Trying to replace a piece has been a futile 'fix this -replace that, fix this....' I like CI waste systems for various reasons, but for supply, around here they do not last well.

Yeah, lets go back to using lead pipes, why not, they last forever? Oh, right they poison people.

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CA PLMBR

Since we got on the subject of integrity...here goes. CI lasting 100 years that has not been "occluded or rooted". Just make sure a Ficus never takes root and your fine. Its not necessarily the CI that fails, although I have seen plenty of rust affected line, looking like an artery of a 500 lb cheeseburger eatin' dead man walkin'. So yeah without water and roots CI is great for 100 years. Lets be realistic guys. The no hub bands themselves leave enough room for criticism much less the pipe. What does a no hub band look like after 25 years? Pretty well rusted out from what I've seen. So that means the joints are not intact and just scream "Hey trees heres the water, DRINK UP!". I would much rather use ABS. Intact joints of course, does it expand more than CI sure. But I would much rather use it especially under-slab if I had the choice. I'm no great proponent for pex but I do not have the disdain for it as if it were Quest. Quest piping failed at the fittings. At least on all the houses I repiped after the suit. So as long as the connections are good I feel confident in the integrity of the pipe. I have had to do as many as 50 overhead reroutes due to runs of under-slab copper sprouting leaks along the length. And btw your welcome stillwater, glad I could help.

CA PLMBR

Hey Malco I could I could be wrong on this but from what I understand they are not the same. The molecular structure is different. Polyethylene is not the same as Polyethylene X-fiber (hence P.E.X.)They are similar in the fact that they are both photo sensitive., another that could be confused as being the same is PEHD (polyethylene high density) is also different. Thats what they make the porta-potties that we use here in Cali. Just want to make sure we are all dealing with accurate information. Hope this helps.

Driftwood

When You mentioned Ficus in the laterals, You gave it up!!!!!

Dan_Watson

PEX is Cross-linked polyethylene. Its alot different from the form used in plastic bags, buckets, and bottles.

I am just wondering, has the actual PEX tubing been found to fail, or been named in any CAS? Is it just the fittings and/or fastening methods of those fittings?

Grumpyplumber

You're completely right.
PEX has a different MFG process, cross linked with another material for greater strength.
Ironically, I hate the stuff anyway.

We call high density PE "HDPE" here.

Grumpyplumber

With the almost constant reports of potential lawsuits that surface, then dissappear, I find myself wondering if there aren't a boat load of cases settled out of court with gag orders as a part of the agreement.

KillerToiletSpider

Back to the Carbon and Carbide building, that has hub and spigot cast iron stacks that are working just fine after a hundred years, to go along with flawless brass water risers that are just as old. I can't count with my shoes off how many buildings I have worked in that have CI stacks and galvanized water pipe that work just fine after 80 years of service.

The problem is not the material, it is the quest to make everything easier, and therefore more profitable, newer materials are not better, just easier to turn a profit with.

My bosses father was one of the first plumbers to install that new fangled copper water pipe in houses back in the fifties, the company did it on the condition that the manufacturer of the pipe and the fittings indemnify the warranty. They had the random failures due to installation error, but the product lived up to the twenty years of testing it underwent before becoming accepted as the norm.

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A flush is better than a full house.

MALCO.New.York

...........................

I had an entire argument but it is not worth it. I just do not prefer Pex to copper.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE