Need A Little Lesson

Tom M

I am not familiar with steam boilers. My sis has one that is always full and needs to be emptied. She has a ball valve from the hot water side of the water heat that she lets water into the boiler when its low and a drain on the boiler itself when its too full. The problem is she never puts water in and it is always over full. So I was told that the automatic water feed may be bad. This confuses me since the ball valve on the water heater that is feeding the unit is always off unless you let new water flow in. Whats the point of an automatic water feed? Is it likely that the ball valve leaks steady water into the boiler and the automatic water feed is also bad? Another thing I found odd was that the water was fed from the hot side only to be heated in the boiler, is it all the same? Does that matter?

skymaster

Tom: First your feed should be cold water, never fed from a hot water heater. Second truly sounds like you have a bad valve, As far as your aautofeed: First have you ever flushed it out? There is a valve built into the bottom of the feed that must be opened to drain the sludge buildup. usually once a month. I will presume that it has never been done. there is a good chance the feed is shot also. Your boiler water feed should be piped from cold water into house to the feed and from feed to boiler. Next is to change the vents on all the radiators just as good maintenance, If one of them is bad it will mess up with the return of boiler water. Here is something to keep forever :}
WWW.HEATINGHELP.COM website from the foremost steam expert on this planet :}:}:}:} Dan Holohan great person and he will help you out with all questions you can think of, probably knows of a heating contractor in your area is is STEAM QUALIFIED. :}:}:}:} I have steam in my home so I can speak form som experience
First and foremost get that feed off the hot water, Feeder is probably a Mc Connell 101, they are still available and probably should be replaced, I think those 2 things will probably cure the problem.
If you want my cell is 973-945-6686 I am in NJ. Dont ferget to change those vents also
JackM

Tom M

Skymaster thank you for the advice and reply. I also viewed the link you posted and searched that too. Very helpful. I did consider changing all of the valves and swapping the water valve but I didnt want to beat a dead horse spending her money if it was a waste. All we do is drain the boiler and sludge, I had a feeling the valve should have been on the cold supply and it may be leaking. There looks to be a water hammer in between the valve and the boiler. Could I be mistaken it for something else? Also If the valve is replaced to the boiler should it be left open and allow the feed to do the rest ? Could a leaky valve be the reason someone always turns off the valve? Or is this a manual feed that was leaking?

skymaster

Tom: so many questions . I will try to answer as best I can;
1. The valve that feeds hot water; REMOVE IT DONT REPLACE IT, OUT GONE :}:}
2.water hammer is tough cause it is subjective, however it is possible that the autofeed is trying to send water to boiler and since you have another route for it to take could be backfeeding thru that valve. Cant say fer shure without seeing it.
3.Can you unscrew the high pressure blowoff valve?
Since you can shut off heat;
I would drain the boiler, presuming u can get the blowoff out, it is usually 3/4" pipe thread, I would temporarily screw another boiler valve into it and take a hose and flush the heck out of the boiler till you can drain water as clear as possible.
Take a picture and make a sketch and schematic of exactly how the autofeed is wired. Then I would remove it and if you cannot rebuild it then replace it.
When you replace it into the COLD WATER LINE: If you cant do the plumbing get help: Put in 2 ball valves, one before the feed as a shutoff,then a union,the feeder,another union,and another ball valve, in that order. Reason; First is valve is shutoff valve, last valve prevents boiler from draining backwards to feeder, the unions now allow you to change out, repair the feeder without shutting water off to any other places.
Once boiler is flushed out REPLACE THE HIGH PRESSURE BLOWOFF WITH A NEW ONE.
There is a cleaner you can add to the boiler water thru the blowoff tapping, probably good idea at this point. Plumbing supply normally has it.
While you are doing all this also check that you have POWER to the feeder.
If you have the 101 feeder, inside it is basically a copper float that controls a valve ( like needle ) to feed, and a elec switch,plus a burner cutoff so wiring is very critical. It is a low-water cutoff and feed. If 101 you can go the Mc Connell ( i think) website and download the full pdf on the unit.
Once they get gunked up, easier to toss em than try to repair em.
This should solve alot if not all of the problems, but these problems have to be fixed before you can hunt for any others. Dont forget to do radiator valves. When you get to that stage holler cause that is another fun thing, all radiator valves are NOT the same :} We will save that for later
Hope this helps as before if ya need holler, I will do what I can. If all else fails go to Dan's site , put a scream onto the forum there for somebody close to ya to come on over
JackM

atlas06

"Put in 2 ball valves, one before the feed as a shutoff,then a union,the feeder,another union,and another ball valve, in that order".
Skymaster:
I'd throw in a check valve after the first ball valve. Codes require backflow prevention when connecting domestic to non-potable HVAC.

Tom M

Thanks again skymaster--you almost sound like a plumber I dropped a feed into that other forum as well, not sure if I can understand the valve/union sequence you described but thats ok maybe I'LL HAVE someone service the unit. I was trying to be helpful for my sis this nor easter wiped out most of the basement and she has no flood ins. We'll see.

skymaster

Atlas; OK thanks on checkvalve I was never taught that one :}
Tom: Let us say that I have done more than my fair share of plumbing over the last 20+ yrs in construction LOL LOL I do set my own boilers,so far no explosions.
The sequence is simply this: First valve is to shut off waterline to feeder; A union is a mechanical connection that allows you to change out parts to repair or replace; so u have a shutoff valve, then a union on each side of the feed, this allows you to remove it without shutting the water off to the house. The last valve is there to prevent the boiler from draining back to the feeder, because the feed location is lower than the top of the waterlevel in the boiler and it would drain out if you removed the feeder without a valve to prevent that.
A check valve mentioned by atlas is a flow control device that only allows one direction of flow. Basically it is an internal valve that has a flapper inside; aloows water to go to boiler but NOT flow back even with shutoff valves open.
C? EZ Hang in there Tom we gotz yer back. Get ya fixed up in no time
JackM

Tom M

Thanks again I didnt realize the existing could be so off the requirements. I never used copper unions before either. Its all about learning, even though I am a carpenter I love doing plumbing. I like to see a nice plumbing job neat and straight. I still might call in the proffesional but then you dont dont learn either.

skymaster

Tom: No problems. If I remember you are down around Trenton?
If so you are about an hour ish from me. Keep the phone number close :} if you are going to tackle it and want to talk and ask questions feel free to just call. It is not as scary as it seems. . If you have sweated copper before you already have the job done :}
JackM

Tom M

Im actually further North towards Fair Lawn. I appreciate the offer I may take you on it. I can sweat pretty good with no leaks ever. Atlas06 thank your the suggestions as well. Heats not a major issue right now but I think I will give it a try soon.

Grumpyplumber

Atlas, you're right...Watts makes a combo backlow & autofeed specifically for Boilers that comes with built in unions on both sides.