I Admit It. I Got Stumped.

smellslike$tome

Went on a call where ho has a 40 gal elec wh that reportedly started providing less than 20 minutes (2 timed, back to back, 10 min showers) of hot water sometime in February. Ho has a home warranty through Old Republic. OR told ho they had no contractor in their area so they should call their own and OR would reimburse. So we get the call from the ho via referral.

Here's what I did:

Turned upper and lower thermostats as low as they would go.
Checked to insure no current through lower element.
Slowly increased temp setting on lower therm. until it clicked.
After 2-3 seconds I heard the water begin to heat from the lower element.
Checked for 240v through lower element. Voltmeter pegged at 250v.
Decreased temp setting on lower element until it deenergized.

Repeated process for upper thermostat and element. Everything checks out.

Cut cold water supply into wh. Removed dip tube for inspection. No defects
were found in dip tube.

While there was an opening in the tank and the tank was full I stuck my micro see snake through the opening and watched first the lower and then the upper elements as I repeated the checks for each. I could visually observe the heat rising from each element as it was energized.

At this point I'm stumped and advise the ho that the only other thing I can do is to replace both thermostats in the hope that one or both are taking false readings and therefore deenergizing the element(s) prematurely. I explain that there is no way to test the thermostats to see it they are reading temperature accurately.

There isn't is there? If there is then I guess I wasn't paying attention when that plumbing nugget was handed out.

Ok so now we have to call OR so they can authorize. I talk to the girl in California who I'm sure knows and understands everything I am telling her. I give her the whole spiel which boils down to "I don't know what is wrong with it. I can replace the thermostats but can't guarantee that it will solve the problem. If it doesn't then the next step is replacement." She, in typical home warranty company fashion, has the idea that if I replace the thermostats and it doesn't solve the problem then I will uninstall them, sell the parts to someone else, and not charge OR for the install or uninstall but simply the wh replacement. After I correct her very clearly on this point she puts us on hold and several minutes later when she comes back she informs us that (we are all on speaker phone so everybody hears everything) she has contacted one of their contractors and he will be out this pm. I know how this works so I ask her if the ho will be charged and additional service charge for another company to come out to which she replies "no". I then ask rhetorically "and OR will reimburse the ho for my diagnostic time today, correct.?" to which she replied "yes". So I packed up my stuff, had a final conversation with the ho, collected my $225.00 and was on my way.

So I'd probably bet money that OR receives(ed) a phone call within 10 minutes of the other companies arrival on site informing them that the wh is shot, no good, kaput, etc. and will have to be replaced which may be the case but I don't know.

So here is what I want to know:

1. Is there a way to test the accuraccy of a water heater thermostat?
2. Is there anything wrong with this water heater or are the ho's simply using up there 40 gal tank?
3. Is there nothing wrong with this wh and the ho's are simply trying to scam OR for a new wh before their policy runs out at the end of the month?
4. Is there some diagnostic I should have done that I didn't?

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KillerToiletSpider

What were the thermostats set at when you arrived?

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smellslike$tome

125

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Ron The Plumber

Next time, set stopper in tub and see how long it takes before the water turns luke warm to cold, 40 gals don't last as long as a 50 gal heater. the ho are full of it IMO.

KillerToiletSpider

If the house is 15 years or older, there isn't a damn thing wrong with the heater. Showerhead at 3.5 GPM x 10 minute shower = no hot water for about 40 minutes, electric heaters recover at half the speed of a gas one roughly.

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smellslike$tome

House is 4 years old. Present owners have been there since last June.

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mdshunk

Did they change the shower head out to one of those fancy ones that do everything except clean out your belly button lint? Does the time of that change roughly correspond to the time when the water heater "stopped working well". I just recalled that I was running out of hot water often, once upon a time, and it was a bad tub diverter. The shower head pressure was fine, but it was also dumping a good bit out of the tub spout. Me fixum tub spout, problem go bye-bye.

Ron The Plumber

There is nothing wrong with the stats or the elements, you proved that, the dip tube is fine, you proved that.

Stats either work or they don't, it they fail they fail for good, when they fail, they will heat until they trip, plain and simple. I deal with electric WH's everyday, 23 years in the trade, never seen stats that will work sometimes and sometimes not.

smellslike$tome

Well that's what I thought but then I thought maybe they could gradually lose accuracy without failing outright.

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KillerToiletSpider

Pull the shower head and see if the flow restrictor is still there.

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Ron The Plumber

That's the last thing you want to do is 2nd guess your knowledge, stick with what you know, and whatever you do, don't put these thoughts in the HO head, cause they will brainwash you into thinking that is where the problem is, when in reality it may not be, they will constantly bring up that subject over and over again. You know what I mean, we all find ourselves giving up just that little bit of info even when if we meant not to.

Teetorbilt

You Amish! The newer ones DO clean out your belly button! From 3 different angles.......We're still saving water!

6" shower drain and a 1.3 toilet, aren't we conservitive?

No joke here. Just saw my first 6" shower drain.

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smellslike$tome

I actually thought about that but didn't do it.

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3Kings Plumbing

I had a similar problem with that 4 unit apartment renovation I was involved in. Somewhere in time a plumber was sweating pipe together above the W/H and a piece of solder dripped down on to the wire and burned a hole through the jacket (old cloth covered) and wire coating. While the H/O was moving in they bumped this W/H (there is 4 electric W/H New) Lost power to it. Went over there started to run my test with the multimeter. I wiggled the feed wire while I was making sure the wire nuts didn't come off in the W/H. Everything looked good so I turned the breaker back on to make sure I didn't miss anything testing it. This time I had 240 the first time I only had 120? I was like what the ????? So I pulled off the electric box cover quick disconect tested both sides of the breaker and made sure wires were tight. Well during this time I bumped the wire and a little ball of solder fell out. I told her to call the electrican back here to fix this. I told her I didn't do it since all the new piping was pex and we didn't sweat any pipe near her W/H. I was getting to the point I was starting to think I was going crazy. I gave you the short version of this drama.

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Double-A

Smells, I sent a PM with some links.

I think the heater had a bad lower t/stat that was shutting down early or was perfectly fine. I tend to agree with Ron that t/stats work or not, but I have seen them shut down early when working from poor workmanship in manufacturing. Its not unheard of, but not common. A draw down test would have told you what was going on pretty quickly.

February water temps and 20 minutes of draw down on that tank was the problem, not the heater. Just 5 degrees more heat in incoming water can make a big difference in how much actual shower time one can get from a water heater.

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Sewerologist

Electric thermostats are just bimetallic strips of metal with contacts which are primative in this day and age which makes technician testing primative also. I've been through this. HO uses too much hot water and wants warranty to pay for it but expects honesty from everyone else. I haven't seen too much variance in temp of elec t-stats since the mid 90's robertshaw used in Rheem and Ruud heaters in that era. Simple way to show the customer how much hot water they have. Stick a stopper in the laundry tub and fill it twice with your roll of solder unravelled around the ring to yank it so you don't get burned. A single bowl LT holds 20 gal. In and out in no time right in front of ho's face. YOU'RE USING IT> YOU NEED A BIGGER TANK FOR YOUR NEEDS, HABITS, AND INCOMING WATER TEMPERATURE DEPENDING ON THE SEASONS. Done deal.

Ron The Plumber

Just curious was there a solar water heating system there?