Help! It Stinks In Here!

philner

O.K. Here's my problem. My excelent plumber installed a home owner supplied toilet in the half bath of a custom house I built for a wacko customer. She complains of a PERIODIC sewerage smell in the bathroom that seems to be eminating from the toilet. We changed the wax ring(the one that was there looked fine). Made sure that there was always water in the trap. Checked the trap in the pedestal sink for water. sealed off the overflow,bath fan, and hot air supply duct.and the smell came back. The toilet is a "Jaccuzzi" that looks of good quality and matches the pedestal sink(which kind of rules out a quick toilet swap). Anyone with any ideas? no pipes appear broken, and it is almost always raining when the smell occurs. I went up on the roof and the vent stack appears unclogged. and it being winter the window is always shut.Like I said my plumber is very good and conciencous and has never failed an inspection. The system was pressure checked for the rough inspection. What should I do?? Phil

Double-A

Well, if you truly suspect the plumbing to be the issue, then a smoke test is in order.

Lacking that, you can use peppermint oil down one of the vents to see if you can detect in the bathroom. That stuff is really strong smelling and the person that puts it down the vent will be worthless in detecting it. Also, they should stay outside the house while folks are sniffing inside, cause he's gonna smell of it.

Also, is this house on a crawl space? Is/was there a plumbing leak under the house? Water saturating the ground can cause water to push up into the crawl space and reinvigorate bad smells down there.

Has/was there a sewer back up on this property that the owner is aware of? How long ago and where did it show up first? Outside? Toilet not flushing? Under the house?

Another thought, has the spa tub been cleaned properly? Are all the lines and the pump draining properly? Did one of the flexible lines get caught on a piece of framing or wall and pull it down so as to change its pitch, keeping it from draining properly?

Are there any roof leaks over this bath? Has there ever been any problems with rodents or vermin nesting in the ceiling or attic space over this bathroom? How about the walls or the crawl space?

If the bathroom is slab on grade? Is the area around the toilet flange properly sealed? Smells from under the concrete will drift up around that flange and can smell horrid, as anyone that has ever busted up an old slab over poorly drained soil can attest to.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

philner

This house is less than 1 year old with a full basement. This is the only plumbing,roofing or issue of this type to date(just a door or two needing adjustment). There are 2 1/2 baths and this is the only place it is showing up, in the half bath. Seems like it's from the toilet bowl 1-2 hours after use. I suspect it is a defective toilet.The H.O. doesn't want to hear this because she supplied it.Neither me or the plumber have ever seen a "Jacuzzi" toilet before and the toilet bowl rim seems a little different. The other two toilets are plumber supplied kohler and they don't have any problems. There isn't a spa tub in the house. I'm not a plumber, but I don't see how the sewerage smell could get past the trap if there's water in it. One of the key points is that the smell is PERIODIC and seems to happen mostly during rain storms. Phil

KillerToiletSpider

Are you sure it is not a stagnant water smell from water being trapped in the harness of the whirlpool tub? Although they claim to be self draining, I have yet to see one that wasn't trapped somewhere. That would make the problem periodic based on how often the tub is filled.

__________________
A flush is better than a full house.

philner

There is no whirlpool tub in the house and no tub in that bathroom. Just the toilet and a pedestal sink. Phil

JonM

I have the exact same problem in my bathroom every morning after a high-fiber breakfast.......Maybe you should tell her to change her diet....carry on, just being silly here.

philner

I had that same thought! not sure how to bring the subject up. Maybe blame it on her husband? She wears the pants and would probably beat the snot out of him if she thought he was stinking up the house!

Double-A

Check the trap again. Mop string, tampon string, anything that can wick water can be causing the bowl to lose water and allow the water seal to be broken. You can use a mirror and flashlight or a Ridgid Mini SeeSnake to look in the trap.

If you suspect the trap seal is being compromised from something else, I'd use the peppermint oil trick after a flush (let the trap refill). Monitor it and if the smell becomes apparent then you have a trap that is being siphoned or a trap seal being broken somewhere. It can take a while (couple of hours or more) for the smell to turn up if you have a small leak draining the water in the bowl.

If the smell shows up right away, then you might have other problems, such as a bad wax (even though you just changed it out), cracked pipe, bad joint, etc.

This is where you have to switch to a smoke test. Its gonna make the house stink if you have to do one and there is a leak into the house. Smells like old fireworks for a long time afterwards.

Have you inspected carefully under this toilet in the basement for signs of leakage? Its possible you have a bad bowl that is leaking water and allowing the trap to empty to the point you get sewer gases back in. You might see water stains or damp wood to support this.

If its not defective plumbing, then it can be caused by a bacteria that will grow in the bowl rim and other hidden passageways. It will smell like flatulence or fecal matter, but not strongly. The correction is to put a bleach solution in the tank and flush it out. This has to be repeated several times over the course of several days to be effective. Sometimes it will not be effective and replacing the bowl is the only solution.

Note: if you're going to use the peppermint oil trick, do not go into the house with it and don't let anyone that has handled the bottle once its been opened into the house either. Also, do not get in a hurry to call the test conclusive too soon. It can take a while for the smell to develop, depending on the problem. This means don't pull the toilet up or open up a trap in the house.

You will ruin the test entirely if you do.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Double-A

Buy a can of air freshener if you suspect this is the problem. Be honest. Just say it in a way that isn't offensive.

Are you smelling the evidence of a previous use of the bathroom that an air freshener would eliminate? Have you tested this possibility by asking each member of the house to use an air freshener after each use of the toilet?

If you haven't, then have them use it only once, just after flushing. If its a problem with something else, then the smell will still build up and you'll be able to detect it in the same manner you have in the past. If not, problem solved.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

mahlere

septic or city sewer?

A W Smith

Did you take the lid off the tank to see if anyone left a "top loader"?

__________________
Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

philner

Thanks Double A, I was only kidding about the "Fiber" thing,I don't think its due to occupant useage. I have good access to the floor underneath and there is zero signs of water leakage underneath.I think I will check out the toilet rim again and try the pepermint test.Where do I get it? Plumbing supply house?I did check the tank just to check out the situation, didn't notice any top loaders. The rim on this "Jacuzzi" toilet is different with alot of visable orifices and a weird flap type thing. I'll Try cleaning it with bleach,plug the trap and fill it to the rim and let it soak, and double check that trap. The house has a septic system,I lifted the septic tank lid and looked,didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Phil

Double-A

Peppermint oil can be ordered online or found at some older drug stores, health food stores, etc.

About two ounces to a gallon of hot water and dump down the vent. Its gonna smell nice on the roof for a while

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Double-A

Careful, if that weird flap thingie is made of something the bleach will attack, this might not be a good idea unless you can get a replacement for it.

Has the septic tank backed up lately?

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

philner

Double A, Thanks. The flap Thing is actualy porcelin, No septic tank problems yet. They moved in about 8 months ago so any septic issues would be a big deal.

reveivl

How about temporarily changing out the toilet to see if the problem is solved? If it is then order a new toilet, if not then it isn't the toilet and you now know this: one possible removed.

__________________
From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)

mahlere

did you check it in the rain? if the leech field drains slow, and there is heavy seepage of rain water into the septic, it could be backing up into the house...

is this toilet on the 1st floor? close to where the waste line leaves the house?

send_it_all

Yeah, her husband probably pulled an "upper decker" on her as a practical joke.

J87513

check the tank, take a look back there. Right before I moved out of a house that I rented I took a **** back there instead of the toilet to annoy the land lord after she got the house back.

mahlere

now that's class...all low...but class nonetheless...