Flange Too High

 
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Old 02-23-2004, 02:21 PM   #1
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Flange Too High


Hi folks. I'm hoping someone here has a trick that is gonna save me from breaking up a bunch of concrete...

I'm installing a second bathroom in my basement and unfortunately the person who put the toilet flange in left it about 2 inches too high.

The only way I can see to make it work is remove the concrete and cut out those two inches. I'm really not looking forward to that and am hoping that someone here might have an alternative strategy.

Thanks in advance...
 

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Old 02-23-2004, 10:50 PM   #2
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Re: Flange Too High


You neglected to say what your plumbing was fabricated from.
I have an extension for a cutoff wheel that has a 1/4" shank (fits many tools).
I would cut the pipe from the inside, slide out the ring and enlarge the hole as required with an air hammer or cold chisel and hammer.
Pack off the pipe with rags first and vacuum out all of the debris when you are done to prevent future blockage.
How in the heck did the flange get to be 2" too high?
Another thought is to cast up to the flange and have a higher toilet.
Did you know that all of our current dimensions were established when the average American was 5'10"? I have spent 2 yrs. modifying my current house to fit me. My showerhead comes down from the ceiling so that I don't have to do the limbo when I wash my hair. I installed 'handicapped' toilets and am in the process of raising all of my countertops to 40"
Just a thought.

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Old 03-17-2004, 04:57 AM   #3
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Re: Flange Too High


Ram bits work well for this type problem. dill the thing out and lower the flange.
Or cut it flush with the floor and they make an inside design flange that you could install
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:17 PM   #4
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teetorbilt View Post
You neglected to say what your plumbing was fabricated from.
I have an extension for a cutoff wheel that has a 1/4" shank (fits many tools).
I would cut the pipe from the inside, slide out the ring and enlarge the hole as required with an air hammer or cold chisel and hammer.
Pack off the pipe with rags first and vacuum out all of the debris when you are done to prevent future blockage.
How in the heck did the flange get to be 2" too high?
Another thought is to cast up to the flange and have a higher toilet.
Did you know that all of our current dimensions were established when the average American was 5'10"? I have spent 2 yrs. modifying my current house to fit me. My showerhead comes down from the ceiling so that I don't have to do the limbo when I wash my hair. I installed 'handicapped' toilets and am in the process of raising all of my countertops to 40"
Just a thought.

Teetorbilt, to renew/revisit this thread - I am dealing with a similar situation in a house I am remodelling. Both bathrooms had loose/wobbly toilets which turn out to be the result of closet flanges that are between 1/4 and 1/2 inch too high. It almost appears that the flanges were installed with tile in mind and then linoleum was used.

Putting tile in would be one solution, but I have yet to convince them to spend that money.

This is a concrete slab with a 3" drain (PVC). The closet flange is cemented (very well) to the drain and I am hoping not to bust up concrete.

You mentioned "casting up to the toilet". Do you mean pouring concrete or using cement board to build up a spacer?

I have also thought about using a 3" circular cutoff wheel to go in an cut the PVC from the inside which would require a darned precise cut for me to be able to come close to mating a replacement piece of pipe. Can you enumerate all the ways this would be a bad idea so I can feel good about moving on or is there a mechanism for "butt" joining two pieces of PVC?

Thanks
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:29 PM   #5
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Re: Flange Too High


Cut the inside with a dremmel tool or even the outside with a long saws all blade bent on an angle. A 3" ring it will slip into the 4" pipe, it really shouldn't be a big deal
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:35 PM   #6
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Re: Flange Too High


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Old 03-03-2009, 01:38 PM   #7
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Re: Flange Too High


Jack the entire house up a 1/4 to a 1/2", leave the plumbing where it's at, toss in a couple of shims, problem solved.






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Old 03-03-2009, 01:49 PM   #8
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
Originally Posted by plumber1a View Post
Cut the inside with a dremmel tool or even the outside with a long saws all blade bent on an angle. A 3" ring it will slip into the 4" pipe, it really shouldn't be a big deal
Unfortunately, it is a 3" pipe at least down to the turn (I think a 45 degree) where it migh be a little wider, but I don't think so.

I am thinking 3" is a minimum, so I can't stick anything narrower into it.

To clarify what I see when looking down into the hole, the closet flange PVC portion is on the outside of the 3" ID PVC drain pipe.

If I were to take a saws-all and cut flush at the floor, I would have a 3" ID hole with about a 1/2" wall (welded combination of the pipe and the remains of the closet flange.

Now, the engineer in me says just use the 3" circ. blade to cut about 4" down, yank the flange and the attached 3" pipe out (like that is going to be easy). Get some new 3" pipe, stick it in a new flange, prime and coat the new pipe and the pipe in the hole and butt their ends together, adjust the flange to proper height and cement it. "Heck, it's just gravity pulling poo down" so what could go wrong. Unfortunately, everytime I use standard engineering logic applied to plumbing I get to prove how valuable a wetvac is.

All suggestions are appreciated.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:59 PM   #9
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Re: Flange Too High


Rent a sbd 103, rough cut it, then face it with the 103.









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Old 03-03-2009, 03:39 PM   #10
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
the pipe in the hole and butt their ends together
Yikes!... ummm... no.... bad, bad, bad...

Pictures sure would help... You could have started a new thread for this project too...
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:50 PM   #11
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
Yikes!... ummm... no.... bad, bad, bad...

It worked for the space station!

Well, sort of.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:53 PM   #12
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Re: Flange Too High


So, does anyone know what Teeterbilt meant by "cast up to the toilet"?

I can only imagine that he means putting something more solid than plastic wedges in to support the throne. Would cement board work for this?
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:57 PM   #13
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Re: Flange Too High


Call a plumber
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:24 PM   #14
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Re: Flange Too High


In your case, you need to cut off the pipe and flange flush with the top of slab. Make vertical cuts into the remaining piece of the closet flange all the way through to the riser piece in about 4- spaced locations, using a screw driver, pry very carefully the closet flange lower piece from the riser through floor and glue on a new flange. It is possible to separate the glued joint, but you must be very careful not to split the pipe, sometimes more vertical cuts are needed. Next to that is replacing the closet bend below the slab or I have seen water closet bases that the water closet sits on about 1/2" off the floor.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:33 PM   #15
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyco View Post
Jack the entire house up a 1/4 to a 1/2", leave the plumbing where it's at, toss in a couple of shims, problem solved.
This is an excellent solution.
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:27 PM   #16
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Re: Flange Too High


"Cast Up" means to create a spacer that is contoured to the footprint profile of said Crapper. Like a spacer ring.

This will, if done properly, raise the Poop-Jack and enable it to sit properly on the flange. And will actually make the Throne more comfortable to Squat Upon!!!!!

Just do not be a dumbass and use naked plywood. You will regret it soon if you do!!!!
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:47 AM   #17
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
"Cast Up" means to create a spacer that is contoured to the footprint profile of said Crapper. Like a spacer ring.

This will, if done properly, raise the Poop-Jack and enable it to sit properly on the flange. And will actually make the Throne more comfortable to Squat Upon!!!!!

Just do not be a dumbass and use naked plywood. You will regret it soon if you do!!!!
This is what I was thinking it might be and a reasonable solution as height is not an issue for the male components of the family. I have never understood the reason for toilets being so low to the ground.

Would cement board make a good spacer or would it crumble in such an application?
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:52 AM   #18
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Re: Flange Too High


Ram bit it out all the way to the next fitting hub, clean the hub with the ram bit, new pipe and flange. May take time but that is a solution.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:56 AM   #19
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Re: Flange Too High


Hmmm, no sure I can trust a guy that would give his CAT a gun!
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:13 PM   #20
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Re: Flange Too High


Quote:
Originally Posted by zotparkerm View Post
This is what I was thinking it might be and a reasonable solution as height is not an issue for the male components of the family. I have never understood the reason for toilets being so low to the ground.

Would cement board make a good spacer or would it crumble in such an application?

Cement Board will eventually deteriorate. Crush-out. Flake. Unless you seal up the edges as you would tile.

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