Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-17-2006, 06:02 PM   #1
Plumber
 
tzzzz216's Avatar
 
Trade: Plumbing
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 410
Rewards Points: 250

Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


I've installed thousands of feet of copper pipe in south Florida , soft and hard over head and in the ground roughs never ran across or saw any problems other than a leaking fitting or a drywall screw in it , I moved up to northwest Florida 2 years ago and opened my business last year I get at least 2 calls a month from one end of the county to the other end for leaks in copper pipe they all have been pin holes in all them it seems that all of them been on the cold supply side ,has anyone else seen this problem in their area of the country , any ideas what might be causing it ?



Try to send these jobs overseas !!!
tzzzz216 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 11-17-2006, 06:06 PM   #2
DGR,IABD
 
mdshunk's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,682
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


It has to do with the PH of the local water supply. It is a well know and documented phenomenon. This is very common on wells.

Advertisement

mdshunk is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 06:38 PM   #3
Pro
 
Dustball's Avatar
 
Trade: Project Manager/Licensed Remodeler
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 756
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


I remember seeing this question on an old show of Ask This Old House.

Here's their answer-

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvpr...212564,00.html

Quote:
For instance, flux—the acidic paste used in soldering—react with copper if the pipes stand idle for a long period after installation. This kind of trouble typically crops up near fittings and in cold-water pipes because hot water is better at washing flux away.
Dustball is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 06:39 PM   #4
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,474
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


The areas that you mention have a high sulfur content in the water and it doesn't seem to like copper pipes. We have the problem here too, mostly in older homes. Electricians bonded into the copper plumbing 'just like we do it up north' without realizing that our ground is mostly all old beach and full of salt. Salt attracts water and the water table is commonly only a few feet down. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the rest.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 08:49 PM   #5
Pro Plumber
 
Ron The Plumber's Avatar
 
Trade: Plumber
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,779
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Simple solution, use type L copper or switch use pex.
Ron The Plumber is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 10:26 PM   #6
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,474
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Cross linked polyethelene will also break down when exposed to certain chemicals.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 10:36 PM   #7
Plumber
 
tzzzz216's Avatar
 
Trade: Plumbing
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 410
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber View Post
Simple solution, use type L copper or switch use pex.
Ron, I was of the same thinking up until today when i found for the first time a leak in L copper . Thanks for your reply and others who replied to this post.
tzzzz216 is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 10:40 PM   #8
Pro Plumber
 
Ron The Plumber's Avatar
 
Trade: Plumber
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,779
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Wow, L is some heavy duty copper, you might need to do some homework and find the best alternative/s for high PH levels in the ground.
Ron The Plumber is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 10:54 PM   #9
contractor
 
cmwacasey's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry plumbing electric
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: central texas
Posts: 215
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


teeter are theses chemicals you are refering to,found in our water supply.
cmwacasey is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 11:13 PM   #10
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,474
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


I never found out the exact source but cleaning agents were highly indicated. I've only seen it twice but you could, litterally, crumble the tubing in your hand. Polyethelene is cheap crap IMHO.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 11:16 PM   #11
DGR,IABD
 
mdshunk's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,682
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwacasey View Post
teeter are theses chemicals you are refering to,found in our water supply.
I was wondering what breaks down PEX too. I do know that it is not UV resistant, so if left out in the sun it will get brittle. They make gasoline cans from polyethylene.

From my old college chemistry book: "...polyethylene is insoluble in all solvents and is resistant to the action of most reagents, other than strong oxidizing acids..."

This makes it pretty bullet-proof in my book. Plus, PEX includes an anti-oxidant in the polymer to resist the oxidative degredation of hot water on the pipe. It will be interesting to learn exactly what does effect PEX, other than UV light.
mdshunk is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 11:20 PM   #12
Pro Plumber
 
Ron The Plumber's Avatar
 
Trade: Plumber
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,779
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Nice to know there is more then just me on here that thinks Pex is good and not just some crap.
Ron The Plumber is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 11:22 PM   #13
contractor
 
cmwacasey's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry plumbing electric
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: central texas
Posts: 215
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


pin holes in copper,crap polyethylene,galvananize corrodes,cpvc is not good.what are we going to do?water damage business is looking good.
cmwacasey is offline  
Old 11-17-2006, 11:47 PM   #14
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,474
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


md, your problem is that your old college book is old and you ain't getting any younger either.

I currently purchase my tubing from here http://www.newageindustries.com/ there are charts there that explain the differences between PE and PU. Since switching to PU, I have had 0 failures but it costs much more.

As far as what caused the failures, I'd like to know too. It sure ruined the PE.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 11-18-2006, 12:36 AM   #15
contractor
 
cmwacasey's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry plumbing electric
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: central texas
Posts: 215
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


teeter I think I will go with the pe.if they start running gasoline in my water pipes,I want it to corode---faster the better.
cmwacasey is offline  
Old 11-18-2006, 09:32 AM   #16
Pro
 
gitnerdun's Avatar
 
Trade: plumber
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


Back to pinholes..........Here in SW FL I was getting at least 1 call a day for a pinhole below slab (slab leak) last year. This past few months it has slowed to 2 a week. The majority of these calls are in homes less than 10 yrs. old and almost every one is on county water. My house is 50 yrs old never a slab leak and was on a shallow well for 40 yrs, go figure. I have repaired leaks in copper less than 2 yrs old. All of these are Type L.

Speculate all you want about flux, sand, shells, electrolisis, poor install, thin pipe, recycled copper, dumb southerners, whatever...........it has all been a hot topic among homeowners and plumbers.

Repipes are as easy to sell as raincoats in the rain. People are repiping before the first leak. There are many plumbers that only do repipes and just name their price. People are/were panicky enough to pay whatever just to get on the long waiting list.

Leaks are not choosy about what nieghborhoods either, from 100k to multi-million $ houses.

The epoxy-liner guys are having fun too, with all the island fixture, marble floors, and fancy wallpaper houses.

I am just 1 plumber who works by himself and doesn't advertise other than a phone# in the yellow pages. People weren't asking "how much" they were saying more like "we need you to repipe now!".

Last year I sold a few whole-house carbon filters to some regulars and they have had no leaks. Made a difference? Don't know for sure.

After 9-11 Is when this all started to happen, I think the local Government started to add more chlorine to the water to be safe than sorry later. I am not one of those paranoid people, so don't go there.

So you guys who don't have to spend a couple days a week on your knees hammering up concrete should be thankful. PEX is a gift to re-piping and is the better pipe for us here. You all should consider the fact that a homeowner or handy-man cannot get parts or work on a Wirsbo Pex system. Fewer fittings, flexible, and now water hammer. You an look at a connection tosee that it was installed properly. You can't do that with a glued joint.

There it is in a nutshell, but it's not all that bad here in FL. It is 60 degrees this morning the sun is shining and I am going fishing, saltwater of course, that is where the bigones are. Bob
gitnerdun is offline  
Old 11-18-2006, 08:48 PM   #17
contractor
 
cmwacasey's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry plumbing electric
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: central texas
Posts: 215
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , Is It Happening By You??


thanks bob--well written good information from someone working out in the feild.

Advertisement

cmwacasey is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drain Pipe denick Excavation & Site Work 18 07-12-2009 04:41 PM
drain pipe holes up or down? jimb317 Plumbing 9 06-06-2007 04:22 PM
Cement Contact with Copper Pipe Capt2 Plumbing 11 04-17-2007 09:05 PM
Painting new gal. gutters copper DeanV Painting & Finish Work 0 06-22-2006 09:39 PM
Copper pipe locator mlsgroup Plumbing 3 01-21-2006 08:42 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?