Builder Beating Me Down

Plumber_Pete

So today I get a call from a builder that I do a fair amount of work for. Hes putting in a pool house and has forms up and ready for me. First thing I say is hold on I haven't even seen prints much less give you a price. So I get the prints, 3 fixture bathroom plus a water heater, which I count as a fixture.

750 a fixture- 3k for the rough, top out, and trim.

I get a call back saying this is way too much. "The rough will only take you 4 hours you are making too much."

I don't get it, I bid the same rate as I always do and he never has a problem on the big houses paying this much. Why since this is a smaller project should I lower my rate? i know it's not much time but I have overhead. I am not getting rich off this nor is the 3k going straight in my pocket. Now as I said he gives me a lot of work and normally does not say anything about price whatsoever. Would you take one in the rear just to save face with the guy or tell him to find someone else?

Sorry this isn't really a question it's just got me a little frustrated since all I ever do for this guy is bust ass and try my best to get his projects done right.

skyhook

It does seem a little high. I've been paying 500 per fixture but that price hasn't changed in 20 years. If you lower your price on this one, he will expect the same from now on.

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Plumber_Pete

Thats exactly what I'm worried about. I would not make any money at 500 per. 750 Is a very competitive rate around here in fact I know others who charge more. What aggravates me is this guy has told me face to face that I take care of him better than most of his trades and better than any plumber he's had in the past.

KillerToiletSpider

I estimate based on $2100.00 per fixture, and that may go up soon.

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j_builder

That price quote sounds fair enough Just paid nine hundred a fixture here last year cause I didn't have the time for plumbing (more important things) not that plumbing takes any less skills planning,framing,finding more work for the crew.

Stick to your guns with your price imo!

BTW I had to repair the "water hammer" that the plumber created for free

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MALCO.New.York

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Greg Di

Per fixture pricing by plumbers boggles my mind. Why? Because most of the remodel jobs I have done requiring a plumber are remove and replace jobs where the existing supplies are cut and they tie in as much new pipe as possible with the room's walls open. At the most, maybe 16' feet of 1/2" is used for the whole job. The work is generally very redundant (a pipe is a pipe) and is usually done mostly by $10 per hour helpers.

If my plumber is in the bathroom for 4 hours TOTAL for three fixtures, he's making a load of money at $800 per fixture. I know about overhead and whatnot, but that amount of money for basic work is just stupid.

Then again, maybe I'm just jealous that the plumbers seemed to have universally banded together to create baseline pricing that us dumb remodelers are too stupid to do. We fight over who charges the least.

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essrmo

exactly. he is shaking your hand with one hand and handing you s**t with the other. did gas go down? show him invoices of what he's been paying you since the beginning. maybe somebody else is writing the checks.

BKFranks

Tell him gas prices are causing all your materials to increase. Gas prices to and from the jobs and to pickup materials. Someone's got to pay for it.

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reveivl

Why tell him anything, he doesn't run your business. Ask him questions: You've been happy to pay this in the past, what has changed except the price of everything, which has gone up?

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Plumber_Pete

Greg Di,

This is new construction. A lot more than 12" of pipe and a lot more knowledge is required than your 10 an hour helper has.


I am going to stick by my price. We'll see what happens.

Grumpyplumber

I don't know anyone that'll rough & finish at that price...$750 is rediculous...I think you forgot a zero or something.

Grumpyplumber

Good man, it gets to the point where you have to weigh out whether you're just better off working as an employee with insurance & bennies paid for with no ad budget.

Grumpyplumber

You either know more about how to do my trade than anyone here, or your not very bright.

How long you been plumbing?

Plumber_Pete

I guess 4 hours and a piece of 1/2" pipe and everyone can be a plumber!

Mike Finley

How does a plumber do it with per fixture pricing? Are you doing this without seeing the job or seeing the job and then guestimating the added or lower actual difficulty and adjusting your per fixture price up and down in your head.

If you don't see the job and just charge X all the time per fixture how does that work out? Are you just figuring on the long run it all works out? Do you just roll with it when you get into the job and you spend an extra 4-5 hours then you normally do? Fixtures don't matter either? Roughing and trimming a fancy wall mounted hidden tank toilet is the same cost as roughing and trimming a normal 2 piece toilet?

Grumpyplumber

Good questions, there are exceptions...like pedastils vs vanities, widespread vs mini, but it looks like Pete was referring to repetitive low end work.

I will say that $750 per fixture is very low...I don't know anyone in my area pricing that low, excepting maybe large multi-residential units where there are hundreds of units that are all relatively the same layout.
you'll probably find we all have our own way of pricing, but rule of thumb for a 3 piece bath and kitchen it averages out.
My area averages anywhere from $1k to $1.5 each...could be a cost of living thing too.

Plumber_Pete

Grumpy is right. I start with a base price. It goes up for ped lavs, wide spreads, drop in tubs, custom showers, anything other than your standard builder grade. I WISH I could get more than 750 per but I would not sell any jobs. Everyone around here in Austin on residential is right there or less. I know people that bid commercial up to $1500 a fixture though.

KillerToiletSpider

Per fixture is a tool I use to establish a base number, it gets adjusted for the situation, if the scope of work involves installing a Duravit concealed tank toilet on the other side of the bathroom, it will get adjusted up to cover the 3" copper that will have to be run, as well some added rough time for the carrier. My per fixture is also based on worst possible scenario, lav is figured as a 3 piece console table with a bottle trap, etc. There is also add-ons for things like concrete removal, usually the GC will do the removal because I price it as a plumber doing it, which is a little expensive, but we have been paid to trench concrete.

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silvertree

I've been paying about $1000 a fixture in Mpls for remodels. Sometimes I pay more like maybe $1300 to $1500 a fixture. Then I mark that up to pay OH and profit.
$750 sounds good, but every area is different.

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