Average years you'd expect a toilet to not leak - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Mike Finley · 04-01-2009, 04:40 PM

What's you opinion on if you had to come up with an average number of years for how long toilets go before the wax ring needs to be replaced?

neolitic · 04-01-2009, 04:51 PM

Wax lasts a very long time.
I have pulled toilets that I have
every reason to believe have been
in place for 80 years.

SLSTech · 04-01-2009, 04:52 PM

Whenever they decide to change out the fixture or the flooring - I just can't see a ring giving out if everything was installed properly. I have been in plenty of 25+ year old houses where they have the original toilet & ring in place with up to 3 layers of vinyl flooring cut around the toilet.

Tinstaafl · 04-01-2009, 04:52 PM

On [good] framed flooring, 10-15 years. On concrete, a heckuva lot longer.

Assuming, of course, that it's a good installation to begin with.

DavidC · 04-01-2009, 04:57 PM

For $1.50 we replace it any time we pull a toilet. But I expect that should last 20 years or more. It seems any wax seal calls are either fresh (but faulty) installs or older than the hills.

Good Luck
Dave

Mike Finley · 04-01-2009, 05:03 PM

Average... Average... Average....

If somebody installed 1000 toilets in every different condition you could think of....

average years you would expect before leaks? 2 years... 10 years... 20 years...

I know there are toilets sitting since John Crapper installed them without a leak...

but I don't think that's the average result, I think professional plumbers who do a lot of service work probably have a aveage age of a toilet install in mind where they start to see toilets needing servicing for leaks.

K2 · 04-01-2009, 05:11 PM

I have 18 that I've had since new in 1985. No leaks. I'd say the avarage is greater than 25.

Ron The Plumber · 04-01-2009, 05:19 PM

There is really no average on a wax seal. too many factors involved that can come into play to cause a wax seal to fail.

WarnerConstInc. · 04-01-2009, 05:19 PM

The old ones used to have plumbers putty for a seal, those suck to clean up after you pull the crapper.

Most I see that have some issues will be 30+ years old, on their third set of guts and now have a tank leak/crack issue.

I have seen some go faster but, I think there was a burly woman, hillbilly husband and a Dale Jr. win involved with those.

thom · 04-01-2009, 05:31 PM

The difficulty here is the question. You ask how long, on average, something should last. The ring should last forever (in house-life terms). They don't fail as a result of time, they fail as a result of circumstance.

Poor installation is one reason, it was never properly sealing. A rocking or twisting commode is another reason. Over time the twisting and tearing destroys the wax seal integrity. Even though this happens over time, it's not a function of time, it's a function of the amount of movement. So, it's not the answers that are wrong, it's the question.

K2 · 04-01-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thom

The difficulty here is the question. You ask how long, on average, something should last. The ring should last forever (in house-life terms). They don't fail as a result of time, they fail as a result of circumstance.

Poor installation is one reason, it was never properly sealing. A rocking or twisting commode is another reason. Over time the twisting and tearing destroys the wax seal integrity. Even though this happens over time, it's not a function of time, it's a function of the amount of movement. So, it's not the answers that are wrong, it's the question.

Yes, rocking toilet syndrome. Also clogged pipes and a plunger can take out a seal.

Mike Finley · 04-01-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2

Yes, rocking toilet syndrome. Also clogged pipes and a plunger can take out a seal.

Been my experiece too. Wax rings may theoretically have the ability to out live cock roaches but it's not the case.

Quote:

The difficulty here is the question. You ask how long, on average, something should last. The ring should last forever (in house-life terms). They don't fail as a result of time, they fail as a result of circumstance.

Exaxtly, hence the question I asked. I didn't ask how long should a wax ring last, but average years you expect for a toilet not to leak. Two different questions.

protechplumbing · 04-02-2009, 11:14 PM

You're the chief toilt mover, you tell me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

Average... Average... Average....

If somebody installed 1000 toilets in every different condition you could think of....

average years you would expect before leaks? 2 years... 10 years... 20 years...

I know there are toilets sitting since John Crapper installed them without a leak...

but I don't think that's the average result, I think professional plumbers who do a lot of service work probably have a aveage age of a toilet install in mind where they start to see toilets needing servicing for leaks.

Mike Finley · 04-02-2009, 11:36 PM

You're the pipe master you tell me.

**Teetorbilt** · 04-02-2009, 11:53 PM

Average here is about 20-25 yrs. Roaches and Palmetto bugs (much bigger and more common) have nothing to do with it. Also most homes here are temp. controlled, eliminate that.

Maybe the wax just dries and shrinks over time. It wouldn't take much of a gap for a water leak. On a molecular level water is very small (Periodic Total of 10, 8 for O and 1 for H). Yes, I do know the rest. I'm just pointing out that the stuff can be sneaky.

**Double-A** · 04-03-2009, 01:09 AM

Depends on what it was set on. Some plumbers set on putty instead of wax. I found those to be the problems, lasting only about 20 years or so, depending on on if they were on concrete or pier and beam clooring systems.

I haven't seen a wax seal fail in and of itself. Every leak at the flange is a result of poor workmanship or failed materials other than the wax.

Average life span of a leak free toilet set on a wax seal? No idea. I don't think there is an average. If the floor is true, the flange good quality and properly bolted to the subfloor, the closet bolts, nuts and any washers were brass/stainless and properly tightened, the wax seal should never leak.

If not, then you can replace the seal every year or three.

Oh, one other factor is kids and vanities. I have found that families with toddlers and vanities = leaks. The kids climb up on the seat and lay their belly on the vanity to use/play in the sink. This side load causes leaks after a period time.

Driftwood · 04-03-2009, 08:26 AM

Mary Haggerty ,can blow one out with a POWER PLUNGER in a heartbeat.
Power Plunger ? Got one? They ROCK!!

rbsremodeling · 04-03-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

Depends on what it was set on. Some plumbers set on putty instead of wax. I found those to be the problems, lasting only about 20 years or so, depending on on if they were on concrete or pier and beam clooring systems.

I haven't seen a wax seal fail in and of itself. Every leak at the flange is a result of poor workmanship or failed materials other than the wax.

Average life span of a leak free toilet set on a wax seal? No idea. I don't think there is an average. If the floor is true, the flange good quality and properly bolted to the subfloor, the closet bolts, nuts and any washers were brass/stainless and properly tightened, the wax seal should never leak.

If not, then you can replace the seal every year or three.

Oh, one other factor is kids and vanities. I have found that families with toddlers and vanities = leaks. The kids climb up on the seat and lay their belly on the vanity to use/play in the sink. This side load causes leaks after a period time.

Agreed. I have never seen a wax ring fail. Either poor toilet installation or bad/failed construction process

Mike Finley · 04-03-2009, 08:41 AM

Got it.

So I'm guessing that if you offered a 10-15 year warranty on a project, it would be safe to say if you included covering the toilet from leaks you would be fixing a lot of toilets over the years that would leak that weren't any fault of your own.

Ron The Plumber · 04-03-2009, 08:48 AM

There is no average without data. To find the average take total number of leaking toilets over a 1200 month span, divide that by twelve, that will give you the monthly average, then divide your monthly average by twelve, you will come up with your yearly average, it's rocket science.