Is This Approved By Code?

 
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:42 PM   #1
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Is This Approved By Code?


I remodel kitchens. I was doing a tearout on Monday. Gas cooktop. Turned off the valve and removed the flex line from the cooktop and removed the cooktop.

Looking down at the line where it comes through the slab. The line is in a sleeve and concrete is poured around it. This all looks normal but the gas line itself is copper. I have never seen this before. Checked outside where it goes in the sleeve under the slab and its copper there also. The copper connects to a 3/4" black pipe.

Is copper allowed for gas piping?

The homeowner told me 3 months ago there was a gas leak under the slab and he had the line replaced. Tore out the tile floor and cut through the slab.

This is in Tucson if that helps.

I don't want to see another leak occur after the new cabinets and floor are in place. Not to mention the potential for bigger problems. If its legal I'll keep my mouth shut and won't worry him.

Thnks for looking at this.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:46 PM   #2
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


Here in Illinois it is not legal. They make both plastic and flexible stainless steel gas line for that application.

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Old 08-14-2007, 08:47 PM   #3
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


I see copper for propane quite a bit, but not under slab. Sounds weird for natural gas, and even weirder that it's under the slab. Don't take my word for it, though. Just telling what I see. I wonder if that sleeve is a conduit the whole way from A to B?
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:38 PM   #4
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


Around here you can't run gas line of any type under a slab of an enclosed area for obvious reasons. Outside slabs are fine.
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:57 PM   #5
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


How old is the home? The regs have changed over time. I see all kinds of stuff that scare the H out of me like copper gas lines in contact with aluminum in a high salt atmosphere, it's been this way for 80 yrs!
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:10 PM   #6
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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Originally Posted by Teetorbilt View Post
How old is the home? The regs have changed over time. I see all kinds of stuff that scare the H out of me like copper gas lines in contact with aluminum in a high salt atmosphere, it's been this way for 80 yrs!
Yeah, but this gas line was recently replaced. I have seen copper lines used for gas that were suspended in basements for gas grills that have developed pinholes, it is believed around here that the chemical they use to put the odor in natural gas rots the copper, though the gas company will not confirm or deny this.
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:22 PM   #7
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


Copper is fine for propane, but NOT natural gas.
Nat. gas has sulphur that eats copper.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:24 PM   #8
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


Thanks for all the answers.

I did talk with the homeowner today and asked about the gas line. I did not tell him of my concerns because I'm not sure if they are justified.

He said when they first smelled the leak he called the city building dept and they sent out an inspector who looked at the problem and then gave him a list of recommended contractors. The contractor came out and made the fix and the city was not involved again.

It is through a sleeve from outside the foundation until it comes up through the slab where the island will be again. Cemented on both ends. This is natural gas not propane.

Not sure where to go with this but I think I will put a notation on the contract about noticing the use of copper for gas supply and have him initial this.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:30 PM   #9
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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Originally Posted by not2late View Post
Thanks for all the answers.

I did talk with the homeowner today and asked about the gas line. I did not tell him of my concerns because I'm not sure if they are justified.

He said when they first smelled the leak he called the city building dept and they sent out an inspector who looked at the problem and then gave him a list of recommended contractors. The contractor came out and made the fix and the city was not involved again.

It is through a sleeve from outside the foundation until it comes up through the slab where the island will be again. Cemented on both ends. This is natural gas not propane.

Not sure where to go with this but I think I will put a notation on the contract about noticing the use of copper for gas supply and have him initial this.
I would defiantly do that, and maybe have an option in the contract to correct the problem properly.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:33 PM   #10
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


It is legal in NJ but it has to be sleeved the whole way and cannot be in contact with the concrete at all.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:55 PM   #11
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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It is legal in NJ but it has to be sleeved the whole way and cannot be in contact with the concrete at all.
THE single most frustrating thing about talking code online summed right there.
I truly wish we all had the same code.
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Old 08-16-2007, 03:50 PM   #12
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


Heck I wish they had the same code through out the state. Here in Indiana codes change by countys. I pretty much work in the same 4 countys but if I go out of my little box I start to 2nd guess my work. I mean we have a basic code for all Indiana like straping piping up and way you vent things. where it gets confusing is whan it comes to FHA straps, how much meat your spose to leave on the stud when drilling horizinal. For example: in one county you can drill to the very front of the wall edge and put a stud gaurd on. But in the next county you have to leave 5/8 of wood to the front of the stud and install stud shoes even if it's not load bearing. gets to be confussing sometimes.
Is you states that way?? or do I live in a retarted state
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:36 PM   #13
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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Heck I wish they had the same code through out the state. Here in Indiana codes change by countys. I pretty much work in the same 4 countys but if I go out of my little box I start to 2nd guess my work. I mean we have a basic code for all Indiana like straping piping up and way you vent things. where it gets confusing is whan it comes to FHA straps, how much meat your spose to leave on the stud when drilling horizinal. For example: in one county you can drill to the very front of the wall edge and put a stud gaurd on. But in the next county you have to leave 5/8 of wood to the front of the stud and install stud shoes even if it's not load bearing. gets to be confussing sometimes.
Is you states that way?? or do I live in a retarted state
In the Chicago area code varies from city to city, as well as by county.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:30 PM   #14
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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In the Chicago area code varies from city to city, as well as by county.
Just drink Malox.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:38 PM   #15
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


We have codes that vary locally, but not by any significant amount...usually depends on the local inspectors fettishes.

In two towns that I know of the inspectors won't let you put a PVC stack within 3" of exterior sheathing due to potential nailing, builders love that one.
Another town the guy wants all 2" drains & vents on bow vents...despite a diagram in the codebook thats shows 1-1/4" vents with 1-1/2" drains.
Other towns the inspectors don't care whether you put long or short sweeps on horizontal changes (I do regardless) or cleanouts at changes of direction in exposed area's.
Then there's air chambers...I always do them on shower valves & laundries...but many inspectors don't care.

Bottom line, I call the inspector first if I'm new to him, pick his brain and ask what he likes.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:58 PM   #16
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpyplumber View Post
We have codes that vary locally, but not by any significant amount...usually depends on the local inspectors fettishes.

In two towns that I know of the inspectors won't let you put a PVC stack within 3" of exterior sheathing due to potential nailing, builders love that one.
Another town the guy wants all 2" drains & vents on bow vents...despite a diagram in the codebook thats shows 1-1/4" vents with 1-1/2" drains.
Other towns the inspectors don't care whether you put long or short sweeps on horizontal changes (I do regardless) or cleanouts at changes of direction in exposed area's.
Then there's air chambers...I always do them on shower valves & laundries...but many inspectors don't care.

Bottom line, I call the inspector first if I'm new to him, pick his brain and ask what he likes.
I did a custom home last year in a town, all pvc waste and vent, no problem, same GC called for a price for another one a block and half away, this was not in town, but unincorporated Cook county, which means cast iron and copper waste and vents, the price was more than double.
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:02 PM   #17
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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I did a custom home last year in a town, all pvc waste and vent, no problem, same GC called for a price for another one a block and half away, this was not in town, but unincorporated Cook county, which means cast iron and copper waste and vents, the price was more than double.
Now thats rediculous.
In seeing some of your past posts I'll say you guys have it bad...I'd also bet the pricing is much higher in the area as a result.
Actually...it is...you'd mentioned before.
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:07 PM   #18
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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Originally Posted by not2late View Post
Thanks for all the answers.

I did talk with the homeowner today and asked about the gas line. I did not tell him of my concerns because I'm not sure if they are justified.

He said when they first smelled the leak he called the city building dept and they sent out an inspector who looked at the problem and then gave him a list of recommended contractors. The contractor came out and made the fix and the city was not involved again.

It is through a sleeve from outside the foundation until it comes up through the slab where the island will be again. Cemented on both ends. This is natural gas not propane.

Not sure where to go with this but I think I will put a notation on the contract about noticing the use of copper for gas supply and have him initial this.

The city came out and gave the HO a prefered contractor list???? In my area, anytime a contractor replaces a gas line, the city has to inspect it.

I work on gas fireplaces and have seen HUNDREDS of fireplaces with copper gas lines run to them. I guess it is within code here.
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Old 08-19-2007, 11:27 AM   #19
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Re: Is This Approved By Code?


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The city came out and gave the HO a prefered contractor list???? In my area, anytime a contractor replaces a gas line, the city has to inspect it.

I work on gas fireplaces and have seen HUNDREDS of fireplaces with copper gas lines run to them. I guess it is within code here.
Copper is accepted in the National Fuel Gas Code for this type install, I have never seen it disallowed. I have hooked up a sets of gaslogs with hard pipe, it can be a lot of fitting in little to no space. I don't like the idea of copper tubing inside a firebox but that's just me.
I hate seeing it with solder joints for regulator blow off lines but, it keeps popping up in schools that way all the time, keeps my company busy.

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