Air chambers necessary? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

kermmonk · 07-24-2007, 09:08 PM

Hey Guys,

I am self contracting a new house for myself. 2 baths. Radiant heat with radiant boiler also providing hot water for house.

Are air chambers necessary at every fixture, just at the dishwasher and washing machine or not at all. I spoke with the plumbing sub yesterday, he says in our part of the country they are not necessary. (Northeast TN)

What do you think?

Thanks,
Kermmonk

kermmonk · 07-24-2007, 09:10 PM

Also,

Should I specify 3/4 inch copper main lines with 1/2 branch lines. We have no building codes here whatsoever.

Thanks,
Kermit

KillerToiletSpider · 07-24-2007, 10:19 PM

We put air chambers on every opening, and I highly recommend it.

MechanicalDVR · 07-25-2007, 09:52 PM

I put airchambers on every fixture, as for mains 1" cold 3/4" hot minimum on all residential we do.

crb555 · 07-26-2007, 06:26 PM

I will chime in as well in favor of air chambers. Either a mechanical type, or a tee with a 12" piece of pipe with a cap at a minimum. On a house, I would imagine a single type B WHA would suffice if you used the tee and cap method.

!" min main on cold water, 3/4 on hot water.

CRB

kermmonk · 07-26-2007, 07:52 PM

Thanks guys!

Good info. The plumbers here say they do not use air chambers on any opening. Is there something I am missing. They say they never have call backs for hammering. Do the air chambers serve any other purpose?

One plumber told me they are only necessary in Florida!

Kermmonk

crb555 · 07-26-2007, 08:04 PM

I would feel compelled to ask that plumber just how the laws of physics differs in Florida.

It will hammer without some type of arrangement to either bleed the air completely from the line, or to absorb the shock of pressure meeting air.

Crb

kermmonk · 07-26-2007, 08:25 PM

I had the same thoughts about the Florida remark.

Kermmonk

Work is good · 07-29-2007, 04:38 PM

Maybe water can flows without air over there

If it`s not specifiesd different by the local low

MechanicalDVR · 07-30-2007, 05:29 PM

A plumber that doesn't put in airchambers most likely doesn't wipe his solder joints and is just there to get the job done and doesn't care how well or if it works.

KillerToiletSpider · 07-30-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kermmonk

Thanks guys!

Good info. The plumbers here say they do not use air chambers on any opening. Is there something I am missing. They say they never have call backs for hammering. Do the air chambers serve any other purpose?

One plumber told me they are only necessary in Florida!

Kermmonk

We install them in Chicago by code.

Ron The Plumber · 07-30-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR

A plumber that doesn't put in airchambers most likely doesn't wipe his solder joints and is just there to get the job done and doesn't care how well or if it works.

We don't put in air chambers, not just me, but every plumber you ask here will tell you no air chambers, only if there needed, and there not needed. If you need air chambers, your water pressure is too dam high.

I wipe my solder joints.

MechanicalDVR · 07-31-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber

We don't put in air chambers, not just me, but every plumber you ask here will tell you no air chambers, only if there needed, and there not needed. If you need air chambers, your water pressure is too dam high.

I wipe my solder joints.

Water hammer isn't just caused by pressure it's also from velocity. I have seen entire housing projects that have PRV's on the mains and the plumbing contractors had to go back and add mechanical arrestors on the washing machine lines and all the lavs and kitchen water lines.
I would rather just do it right the first time and avoid any issues.

KillerToiletSpider · 07-31-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber

We don't put in air chambers, not just me, but every plumber you ask here will tell you no air chambers, only if there needed, and there not needed. If you need air chambers, your water pressure is too dam high.

I wipe my solder joints.

In Chicago, we pump the domestic water to the top floor, the building in the pic I posted is sixteen stories, and down feed the system, on buildings taller than 25 stories we use a PRV every fifth floor, but either way you have to provide air chambers or it is going to bang.

MechanicalDVR · 07-31-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpi

In Chicago, we pump the domestic water to the top floor, the building in the pic I posted is sixteen stories, and down feed the system, on buildings taller than 25 stories we use a PRV every fifth floor, but either way you have to provide air chambers or it is going to bang.

I agree totally. Maybe physics are regional and differ in other states. I see they say water works differently in Fla.

knothole · 07-31-2007, 06:14 PM

I've never heard of them in this area, but we don't even have a plumbing code in my county. That may be why. Also, I can't remember hearing a plumber saying anything about water hammer in this area.

Ron The Plumber · 07-31-2007, 08:01 PM

I still wipe my joints.

KillerToiletSpider · 07-31-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber

I still wipe my joints.

I haven't done a wiped joint on a lead water service in years, but I think I still have the tools to do it, I might have to buy a new candle though.

Ron The Plumber · 07-31-2007, 08:17 PM

I still wipe my solder joints, and I care how I do my job, but don't tell MechanicalDVR, he won't believe it's true cause we don't use air chambers here.

kermmonk · 08-01-2007, 06:37 AM

Looks like I started something here. After much research I find out the mechanical arrestors work better than air chambers.

My plumber and I agreed to put mechanical arrestors at the washing machine and dishwasher. ( He still thinks I'm nuts! ) He says his own house has 3 1/2 baths, no air chambers and no arrestors. He says he has never heard any hammering.

I'll let you know what I hear when the house is done.