Vertical Welding With 5/32 7018

josh0813

Hey guys, I will probably get kicked out of here, but I have only been welding for a few months, and I switched from sheet metal work to welding exclusively, so I'm technically not a professional contractor. Anyway, on to my comment, which is, even in my limited time as a welder, I know that 7018 is an all-position rod, so the person that said its not is wrong. Also, has anyone ever tried running 7024 vertical? I did just for kicks, and it doesn't really work-AT ALL!

boomup

it will be easier for someone to show you. First use 1/8 for most applications. So many people think that 5/32 is acceptable on 1/4"-3/4". the fact is 5/32 is way to hot and you will have nothing but problems with undercut, grapes, and burnthrough. It takes patience and practice. Best to learn how to do a stringer vert then weave subsequent pass(es). 7018 rod is held at about a 45 degree angle but with time you will adapt to your welding situation. Right now I am burning a 1/8 7018 at about 120 on a small 50% duty cycle 220. It has some dig and took some time to get used to.

boomup

Ok--it is not an all position rod. There are five positions and 7018 is a 4 position rod. It is Vertical up, overhead, horizontal, and flat. I repeat it is not an all position rod. Go to welding school and take an apprenticeship then you'll learn how to really weld.

dlcj

My solution the the vertical weld is a mig I have done the welding on all my projects (small) for the last 25 years but i have no formal training on the subject of what rods are best and cant remember when i last used a stick welder. I know a mig is not practicle in the field but it is in any size shop with any thickness metal.

You must forgive me i'm board and thought i'd just but in with a smartass answer. ill shutup now

HillbillyFab

Every piece of steel welds different. I have good luck welding in a triangle fashion versus a "U" shap in the vertical mode fashion. I know that doesn't make sense without a visual, so I'll try and dig up an example.

frogman

skull u usin DC reverse current or AC. with ac u dont have the same manipulation you have with dc reverse. can get alot of arc blow with ac.
also how many amps you using? you weldin thin gauge or heavy plate? for thin gage go with a body rod like 3/32 6012 or 6013, you can down hand it like mig, and it pretty much welds itself all around dummy rod. dont use 6011, thats for weldin root passes on pipe and pressure joints or if ya weldin rusty stuff like on the boats. if yer usin 7018 and havin trouble with the 5/32 drop back to 1/8. 5/32 is for layin on heavy beads and remember vertical welds shouldnt exceed 3 x's time the size of the rod diameter. if yer only puttin a small bead down go with 3/32 at around 95 100 amps. if yer runnin along cable like 100 feet or more you may wanna turn it up a notch to compensate for the amp loss.
as for technique you can whip the root up stright or triangle it, but for 5/32 you need to lay a big root fast so a whip triangle action is needed to melt the parent metal while you pause on the sides for a bit if ya dont whip the middle youll grape er up.
hope this helps.

JTMcC

No, uphill or downhill is not a position, it's direction of progression.
Two completely different essential variables on any procedure.

While we are at it there are more than 5 welding positions.

JTMcC

rustyjames

I was taught in welding school that 5/32 was used for flat and horizontal on heavier weldments. For overhead and vertical we used 1/8 but did multi-pass welds to obtain the proper amount of filler.

JTMcC

5/32" is used vertical quite a bit, and works fine if you have heavy enough material.
In fact it's required on the LA City qualification test.
If a guy is having trouble with 5/32" vertical, the best thing he can do is keep practicing with 1/8".
It will come with time, you just have to control a little more heat, and a little bigger puddle.

JTMcC

Balzomedic

Im wondering what your reasoning is for saying 7018 is not all position. It works quite well in the 6G position when testing for the oil fields. The 6G test one is required to take is making a pipe weld at 45 degrees, which pretty much covers em all. Of course I am by no means the authority but do have some good experience with SMAW. Just curious where you're coming from.

rustyjames

You are correct. The 3rd number on the electrode indicates position and the number 1 being all position. For instance, a 7024 would indicate 2 positions, flat and horizontal. The first two numbers relate to tensile strength and the last is the rod coating.

Darkgod

7024 is for flat and horizontal only...

Wildfire

Lets see there is flat , horizontal vertical , overhead ,where is this 5th position

csv

We used 7018 with a 6010 open root for pipe SMAW certs when I was in welding school. In all positions.

rustyjames

That would be a 6G position, pipe is grooved and fixed on a 45 degree angle.

JTMcC

on plate groove welds:
1G is flat
2G is horizontal
3G is vertical
4G is overhead

on plate fillet welds:
1F is flat
2F is horizontal
3F is vertical
4F is overhead

on pipe or tube:
1G is pipe horizontal, pipe is rotated
2G is pipe fixed vertical
5G is pipe fixed horizontal
6G is pipe fixed at 45 degrees

vertical up or vertical down isn't a position, it's a direction of progression.

JTMcC.

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joasis

So why are you restating the same point? There are still 3 basic positions, and a multitude of "progressions" if you prefer to split hairs.

You want to try out your skills for real, come take a pipe test in the oil field. Structural welding is a different cat.

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JTMcC

Well no there really are more than that, you sdeem to be somewhat confused as to what a position is vs. progression.

We are mainline pipeliners around here, so we're used to inspection that's quite a bit more harsh than on flow lines in the patch.

Thanks anyway.

JTMcC.

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joasis

Sure...whatever works for you. The last time I tested, it was for 2000 psi pressure vessel. By the old standard, an AWG 9, 1980 or so. You can reinvent the wheel as many times as you like, but the old tried and true welding methods worked for 50 years without sweating progression.

Since this forum deals with construction and not pipelining, then the topic is a little out of scope. I would find it hard to believe that you deal with specifications and pressures found higher then in natural gas processing.

BTW, "flow lines" are the lines that are coupled and placed between a wellhead and a tank battery....I have yet to see one welded. Mainline compressor fields can have operating pressures exceeding 1500 psi continuously.

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JTMcC

It's not spliting hairs, it's presenting a little info that might help clarify the topic for people who don't work in the welding world every day.

And we first took a tour thru the oil patch many years ago and have made quite a few welds in that environment over the decades.

JTMcC.

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